"NATO invaded Libya and none of the NATO countries faced any sanctions"
This is not an honest take on what happened in Libya. The actions taken were initiated and sanctioned by the UN, as part of a security council resolution. Per Wikipedia:
"The United Nations Security Council passed an initial resolution on 26 February, freezing the assets of Gaddafi and his inner circle and restricting their travel, and referred the matter to the International Criminal Court for investigation. In early March, Gaddafi's forces rallied, pushed eastwards and re-took several coastal cities before reaching Benghazi. A further UN resolution authorised member states to establish and enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, and to use "all necessary measures" to prevent attacks on civilians, which turned into a bombing campaign by the forces of NATO against military installations and civilian infrastructure of Libya."
These concern-trolling throwaway accounts don't also account for the fact that Russia clearly didn't give that much of a shit about the Libya situation, otherewise as permanent members of the UNSC, they could have veto'ed the resolution.
Have you read the UNSC resolution? The UNSC resolution did not call for invasion of Libya. Read it if you haven't. The main point of the UNSC resolution was establishing a no-fly zone to prevent Gaddafi from using Libyan Air Force to bomb rebels and for protection of civilians. It did not order NATO to invade. Rather, NATO used the UNSC resolution as an excuse to invade. So don't blame the UNSC for this (though UNSC is to be blamed for other things: including wording the resolution vaguely/poorly that it allowed for this loophole for NATO intervention).
> concern-trolling throwaway accounts
I am not concern-trolling. I just gave my perspective/opinion. The primary reason for creating a throwaway account is because of it inevitably ending up with being labelled as a "Russian Propagandist" or a "Troll". The "Free-world" has lost appetite for debate with everything that is not mainstream being cancelled/dismissed. Which is sad unfortunately.
Don't take it personally. Most HN readers take their marching orders from NPR, CNN, BBC, r/poltics, etc.
Engineers are notorious for their Gel-Mann amnesia and assume that the same Western propaganda arms that get computer security, cryptography, venture capital, genomics, spaceflight, battery chemistry, and software development so catastrophically wrong happen to be paragons of unassailable truth when reporting on the actions and motivations of nations and leaders that coincidentally happen to be potential threats to FVEY power.
Offering a slightly different analysis or opinion than the lockstep talking points provided by the FVEY-aligned "free" press is, by default, going to be construed as trolling or foreign influence, at best.
Just speak your truth, accept the downvotes, and be happy with the gnashing of teeth.
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I am actually positively surprised that I wasn't downvoted to oblivion and most of the commenters engaged without considering it as "Russian Propaganda" or "Troll" (some of them did but I expected the reaction to be much worse — hence the surprise).
I really hope one day we all can discuss critical issues without attaching labels to each other. Attaching labels requires no real effort.
> Just speak your truth, accept the downvotes, and be happy with the gnashing of teeth.
I agree wholeheartedly. I just can't stand bullshit being propagated as "Truth" and suppressing of counter-narratives. Especially when things are bereft of facts/logic/common sense. One commenter was arguing that it is justified to invade Libya, Iraq, Syria etc because they are not Sovereign States because they are Dictatorships. Such dangerous, illogical points have to be countered. Many don't even know the definition of "State Sovereignty" and confuse it with "Individual Sovereignty".
First you say sanctions won’t work and name alternatives to SWIFT. People were already expecting them to switch. No one thought Russia would sit on his hands if a banking standard was banned. And SWIFT isn’t the only sanction. Companies refusing to do business there and the eventual brain drain will do more damage than SWIFT.
Your next point was China will support Russia, but do you really think they’re trying to help? They probably want to milk Russia of all their oil on the low.
I’m not familiar with the UNSC and Libya conflict so I won’t comment on that, but I don’t see the analogy to what Russia is doing and the sanctions imposed.
> Companies refusing to do business there and the eventual brain drain will do more damage than SWIFT.
Only Western companies you mean?
> but do you really think they’re trying to help?
They are already helping. Russia has already integrated with Unionpay as we speak. Russian Sovcombank and Sberbank have already completed integrations.
> They probably want to milk Russia of all their oil on the low.
Not just China but India will also purchase oil from Russia [1]. Billions of dollars more than any European nation at discounted rates. And with population of India and China, and demand for rising energy requirements, I don't see Russia being inconvenienced by these Sanctions in the long term.
The West is overestimating the impact of Sanctions on Russia. All it did was cut off Russia from the West and make it a pariah in the West. You haven't considered Africa and Asia in this mix at all and that will be the decisive factor that rescues Russia. Even Putin knows this.
The biggest mistake West is doing is undermining its adversaries. Especially Putin (calling him a madman, that he is suffering from cancer or long covid and what not — i heard this crap before with Saddam Hussein — who was supposedly diagnosed with lymph cancer LMAO). It is not the first time and it won't be the last time that the West is trying these tactics.
2 months ago no one was talking about NATO & Libya. Now it's everywhere, a deliberate propaganda push.
Rumor has it Putin is obsessed with Quaddafi due to how quickly he was overthrown, and this push makes me think those rumors are correct. Long serving dictators sitting on an ever-growing pile of resentment, fear of overthrow, etc.
This is not an honest take on what happened in Libya. The actions taken were initiated and sanctioned by the UN, as part of a security council resolution. Per Wikipedia:
"The United Nations Security Council passed an initial resolution on 26 February, freezing the assets of Gaddafi and his inner circle and restricting their travel, and referred the matter to the International Criminal Court for investigation. In early March, Gaddafi's forces rallied, pushed eastwards and re-took several coastal cities before reaching Benghazi. A further UN resolution authorised member states to establish and enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, and to use "all necessary measures" to prevent attacks on civilians, which turned into a bombing campaign by the forces of NATO against military installations and civilian infrastructure of Libya."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Libyan_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Counci...