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I'm not sure if this worked as intended when tracert to google.com I get my IP, skips 13 hops, then 10 unknowns?

I didn't add support for tracert. Will do that and report back!

Done! Feel free to use tracert outputs now!

what an odd clickbait type article, it goes over the history of people who previously wanted to do this. But mention there is no current effort to do so, and asking the question is irrelevant.


I was disappointed too. It was a topic of the 1908 election and the 1880's, not something people discuss now.


I wonder where the divide of "shebang" vs "hashbang" lands geographically and chronologically, During college and for many years in the early 90s and 2000s in the south it commonly called hashbang, didn't hear shebang until C# became a thing, I know it predates that, just never heard it before then.


I believe the dividing moment came with Ricky Martin circa 2000.

Lame joke aside, I only heard "shebang" prior to around that time, then "hashbang" and now I get a mix of it. Google trends indicates "shebang" always dominated.


It's kind of the same with the # symbol. I call it the pound sign but some people call it hash.


In my head I translate an old Swedish term: "timber yard" (from Brädgård). Everything to make interacting with other hard I guess. As a kid we also called it staket, which translates to "fence".


I can see the fence and timber yard imagery.


Interesting, I’ve never even heard it called “hashbang” until you just did.

California, 40yo fwiw


I was a Unix sysadmin back in the late 90’s in east coast US and we called it a shebang when writing shell or perl scripts


I always found it interesting as the sharp term including C# was odd because it isn't the sharp symbol, which is ♯. All of them use the # hash character, so calling it sharp always seemed odd to me, though C-Hash also doesn't roll of the tongue admittedly. It is also interesting how hash is correctly used in some places "Hash Tag" but not others.


It's supposed to be the sharp symbol; it's just that it was a hassle for them to use it consistently in paths etc, so they defaulted to # as a stand-in.

It's "sharp" (i.e. higher tone) because it's a higher-level language compared to C and C++.


In 2010 I met a person from India who pronounced it "C pound", and they were as confused by my reaction as I was by their pronunciation. I guess somehow that pronunciation became popular enough that it acquired momentum and everyone in their circle (or maybe all of India?) assumed it was correct. The # key on the phone is called the "pound key" in India, which is where it would've started from, and I guess they never heard any foreigner Youtube video etc pronouncing it.

I don't know if they still pronounce it that way or not.


I started using C# towards the end of the 1.0 beta or maybe just after RTM...I embarrassingly called it "C pound" for quite a while. Because, even as someone born and raised in the US, pretty much my only exposure to the symbol was in the context of phones. "Call me at blah, pound one-two-three" as in the extension is "#123".

Remember, it was originally release +20 years ago (goddamn, I feel old now); recorded video or even audio over the internet were much, much, MUCH rarer then, when "high-speed" speed internet for a lot of people meant a 56K modem.

Back then, most developer's first exposure to C# then was likely in either print form (books or maybe MSDN magazine).


Not alone, also got those CDs for MSFT partners only, with the draft documentation written in red, before it became know to the outside world?

Also got a few of those magazine CDs, in some box.


I was always partial to "C octothorpe".

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/octothorpe


The "#" key on the phone is called the "pound key" in the US and Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign#Names

It still is, to this day: if you call an automated system such as voicemail, you may be prompted to "press 'pound'". This is really standardized, AFAICT, and no telephone system has told me to "press hash" or "press the 'number' key" [because that's ambiguous]

cks has a history of #! but not an etymology: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/unix/ExecAndShebang...

He links to Wikipedia which documents a good history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebang_(Unix)#History

I was trying to recall what we called it. I used SVR3, so I would've been using "#!/bin/sh" as early as 1990, and even more on SunOS 4 and other Unix servers.

I can't recall having a name for it until "hash-bang" gained currency later. We knew it was activated by the magic(5) kernel interpretations. I often called "#" as "pound" from the telephone usage, and I recall being tempted to verbalize it in C64 BASIC programming, or shell comment characters, but knowing it was not the same.

"The whole shebang" is a Civil-War-era American idiom that survived with my grandparents, so I was familiar with that meaning. And not really paying attention to Ricky Martin's discography.

Wikipedia says that Larry Wall used it in 1989. I was a fervent follower of Larry Wall in the mid-90s and Perl was my #1 scripting language. If anyone would coin and/or popularize a term like that, it's Just Another Perl Hacker,

Likewise, "bang" came from the "bang path" of UUCP email addresses, or it stood for "not" in C programming, and so "#!/bin/sh" was ambiguously nameless for me, perhaps for a decade.

Come to think of it, vi and vim have a command "!" where you can filter your text through a shell command, or "shell out" from other programs. This is the semantic that makes sense for hash-bangs, but which came first?


> "bang" came from the "bang path" of UUCP email addresses

"Bang" was in common use by computer users around 1970 when I was working at Tymshare. On the SDS/XDS Sigma 7, there was a command you could use from a Teletype to send a message to the system operator on their Teletype in the computer room. I may have this detail wrong, but I seem to recall that it included your username as a prefix, maybe like this:

  GEARY: CAN YOU LOAD TAPE XYZ FOR ME?
What I do remember clearly is that there were also messages originated by the OS itself, and those began with "!!", which we pronounced "bang bang". Because who would ever want to say "exclamation point exclamation point"?

The reason this is vivid in my mind is that I eventually found the low-level system call to let me send "system" messages myself. So I used it to prank the operator once in a while with this message:

  !! UNDETECTABLE ERROR
I was proud of calling it an "undetectable" error. If it was undetectable, how did the OS detect it?


Indeed. I joked on slashdot that C# was pronounced “cash” back when it was first announced, which seemed appropriate given the company.

The joke didn’t land, sadly.


It lands for me, today :)


I've landed in a smaller non profit, the pay isn't amazing, but the benefits are, including a pension.

The main reason is it matches the feels of a start up, I have my hands in all decisions, from tech to literally office arrangement, and actively work to solve all issues in the company. That and at the end of the day, I feel good about what we are doing. I'm not chasing an IPO, our funding is very stable, so there isn't the endless dread of whats at the end of the run way.

My biggest fear, is that I don't know if I could easily go back to the rat race, and that my skills have broadened, become soft set and I don't actively develop as much as I once did.


when the defense of a project is that you can turn off the bad features, you aren't really making a chase better than say chrome or anything else.

A product built on trust, shouldn't involve having to go turn off untrustworthy elements.


You don't need to turn off "bad features". Just don't use them. Just like the rest of the browser features you don't use, which there are many of.


You don't need to "turn off the bad features" because they are opt-in to begin with.


I shouldn't need to opt into or out of features that shouldn't exist in the first place, much less in a browser.


You're scraping the paint off with how far you're dragging the goalposts.

Brave has a weird crypto thing, it's on not by default, it's not pushed on you, I don't even know how to turn it on.

Firefox right now today has ads in the URL bar. I'm using Waterfox to avoid all Mozilla's garbage but Brave is up near the top of least shitty.


Up near the top? It literally had a controversies section on Wikipedia due to all these shady things it did, with cryptocurrency and others, I am not sure how worse it can get [0]. I'll take URL ads any day of the week compared to the kinds of things Brave pulled over the years.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brave_(web_browse...


The list for Firefox over the years would warrant a whole page on Wikipedia. Browser choices are a who's who of who's debased themselves the fewest number of times trying to squeeze money out of a free product. The current state of Brave is better than the current state of Firefox right now.


I simply don't understand how you could think that about Brave yet in the same breath say that Firefox is worse, what exactly is worse about Firefox than hiding a literally cryptocurrency scam token in the browser itself?


Brave today: Here's a free browser with no ads, built-in adblock and user-respecting defaults. If you want there's also this crypto thing you can try. No pressure, most people don't. We also have an ad supported search engine as our default.

Firefox today: Here's a free browser with ads on the new tab page, ads in the url bar, ads in Pocket, ads for our VPN service, and we let advertisers collect your data same as Chrome with "privacy preservation ad measurement" and you have to turn all of that off. We have an ad supported search engine by default. We also redirect your DNS queries to a third party "for your privacy."

I think people want Firefox to be better than it is in practice because of the historical good will they've built up over the years. I wish they were better too.


Personally I'd much rather have a non-Chromium browser with some unintrusive ads than one with cryptocurrency, perhaps that is where our differences lie. And anyway, with Chromium being upstream with Manifest v3, who knows how long Brave can keep up its adblocking capabilities?


> when the defense of a project is that you can turn off the bad features, you aren't really making a chase better than say chrome or anything else.

> A product built on trust, shouldn't involve having to go turn off untrustworthy elements.

This is very misleading! You don't "turn off" bad features in Brave. You have to explicitly turn them on. By default it's off.

Just like how you don't have to visit dodgy sites in Chrome; you have to take action to visit dodgy sites.

Same with Brave - you don't have to do any crypto stuff; you have to put in extra work and effort to do the crypto stuff.


The crypto part isn’t something you turn off. It’s buried in a menu somewhere. For all intents and purposes, it’s a pretty elegant UX.


The irony is it isn't for the win(dows)


As a southern from the New Orleans area, ya'll is as natural a part of everyday language as it comes, and generally when it is heard by people who aren't from the south it comes off as smug, or cringe. Generally because they put a strong emphasis on the world, when it is rarely warranted.

It's like when people try to pronounce "New Orleans" as "nawlins" (to be clear, no one native says it this way, its tourist trap t-shirts that pronounce it this way), or some other such silly thing. Conversely there are many words that are said in unique ways in the region and part of being accepted as a transplant is people who learn to say those words with the regional dialect.

It may come as a shock, but I doubt anyone in the south (outside of the irish channel) really gives the New York Times opinion on southern language much of a second thought.


"but I doubt anyone in the south (outside of the irish channel) really gives the New York Times opinion on southern language much of a second thought."

Weird take. It's not like just because some portion of a Southern state is anti-elitist or whatever the state is devoid of New York Times readers. I grew up in a middle class setting in the South and every house I ever entered had a copy of The New Yorker. There are NPR stations all over the country. The South is not a mono-culture.


I have to say the accompanying video doesn't sell the product well at all, the same scene over and over with some jumping oddly. Perhaps there a need that I'm unaware of?


I appreciate the advice. The video is mainly there just to show how it works right out of the box.


Guess I'm not in the target market for this problem. I suppose if you didn't have access to Microsoft 365 or Google Suites this would be a good fit?

But since you are likely paying per seat on your email accounts, it seems it would make sense to go with a provider that already handles this, built in, then you aren't splitting mx or anything else.


> Why can't FTC go after these companies and fine them.

For protecting their customers from bad actors, seems like an odd thing for them to go after.


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