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>It is great news for Berlin (and Brandenburg) as it will bring (big) money and attract talent.

Like the Gigafactory 2 in Buffalo did for New York state?:

But according to SolarCity’s financial statements, state officials “quietly issued a series of 10 amendments” to Tesla, allowing the high-tech jobs to become regular positions and requiring just 500 hires within two years -- down from 900. Tesla told Vanity Fair it was still responsible for creating 5,000 jobs, but the timing for the additional jobs has been extended to 10 years after the factory’s completion.

SolarCity was the center of the Buffalo Billion corruption probe by federal prosecutors, which last year led to high-profile bribery convictions of several people, including Louis Ciminelli, whose firm won the solar plant construction deal.

https://www.syracuse.com/state/2019/08/elon-musk-is-full-of-...


Last week, the government of New york wrote down the value of Gigafactory 2 in Buffalo, which has been mired in scandal:

https://www.syracuse.com/state/2019/08/elon-musk-is-full-of-...

Yesterday USA Today published an article about the disaster the Nevada factory has been for the State, and HN didn't care:

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2019/1...

Today, Elon mentions a new factory one day will be built in Germany, and HN loves it. This company is bullet proof.


>Last quarter, they made as many M3s they have the capacity to make, and sold all of them.

We were told, repeatedly, that Tesla would be producing 10,000 Model 3s per week in 2019, with a single factory. Suddenly, now, they don't have the capacity at ~6,000 per week and need multiple factories on zero year-over-year growth?


Now, please be precise with wording. 2019 hasn't ended, and the 10000 figure was given with the second gigafactory in mind.(which will start production in this year, actually)


>why the losing party does not have to pay legal fees?

Google harms me in some way. I sue them. They throw an army of lawyers at the case. It takes years. Google wins, case dismissed. I should be on the hook for their legal fees?

Believe it or not, the last thing we want is to discourage people from thinking they have the ability to sue people who harm them. And suing for legal fees is also common practice.

Patent trolls are a problem with the law, not the legal system. They are also entitled to sue people violating their patents.


> Google harms me in some way. I sue them. They throw an army of lawyers at the case. It takes years. Google wins, case dismissed. I should be on the hook for their legal fees?

That's a separate issue from whether the loser pays: even with automatic loser pays (or in the situations where the loser pays even in the American system) limitations to “reasonable” costs (or actual specific legislated caps) are possible.


>Khosrowshahi’s call for forgiveness of the Saudis

The Saudis planned and carried out the brutal murder of minor dissident on foreign soil. Forgiveness? This is embarrassing. Where are the SV overlords, calling this out?


Silicon Valley is in bed with the Saudis, no surprise here. Meanwhile, the shrieks coming from California about Trump are deafening.


Not only Silicon Valley. I struggle to see the relation to the Trump administration here, but in any case they are deeply in the Saudis' pockets as well, same as with any other administration that came before. To paint the SA regime and the US leadership to be somehow in opposition to one another doesn't really make sense. The cold hard fact is that they need each other and act accordingly.


>I struggle to see the relation to the Trump administration here

SV CEOs and "personalities" refuse to sit on panels or visit the White House because they hate Trump and his administration. But they'll take money from Saudi Arabia. It's very hard to understand.


Thank you for clearing that up, I think I misunderstood your original comment to mean that the Saudis and the US administration are opposites.

I think you're right that there is some hypocrisy involved when CEOs publicly denounce unpopular politics only to support deplorable practices as soon as money is involved.


I struggle to see the relation to the Trump administration here

The OP is calling out the double standard. Accusing Trump of sexism while taking money from those who literally practice an entire lifestyle based on oppression of women, death to gays, etc.

Uber, WeWork, others are all perfectly happy to accept money from these highly dubious source. Adam Neumann talks about saving the environment while living large on oil money...


No, the OP does not call out a double standard. The OP doesn't even mention any standard at all. The OP is just attempting bothsiderism.

  Silicon Valley is in bed with the Saudis, no surprise here. Meanwhile, the shrieks coming from California about Trump are deafening.


>The OP doesn't even mention any standard at all.

My standard is "don't take money from and ask for the forgiveness of murderers", while at the same time whining about Project Maven, or those providing services to ICE, or facial recognition...

It's appalling that this is even up for debate. Saudi money is blood money in the worst case, oil money in the best. Whatever keeps you in your Tesla though, right?

>The OP is just attempting bothsiderism

More made up words to prevent people from being called out on glaring hypocrisy.

Of course you don't see it; you never see it. But the rest of us do, believe it.


>A lot of the issues may come down to whether management prioritize financial engineering / making huge bonuses / pleasing wall street vs making good vehicles. The same with Boeing..

It's a funny thing to me that no one ever points this out in advance. Where were the articles about Boeing's move from an engineering culture to a financial one? Instead, we wait for the natural cycle of a business to arrive, then make up some answer, like "financialization" to explain it.

How come a hacker site doesn't acknowledge how difficult it is to "stay on top" as a business?

>You see the effect a bit with Tesla where I'm sure Musk would love to focus on quality but has to rush things out to make decent quarterly numbers or risk going bust by not getting ongoing financing

Again, more post hoc reasoning.

Elon Musk negotiated the biggest corporate pay package in history, but he didn't tie it to product quality, did he? Maybe that's why he focuses so much on share price and market cap and quarterly numbers? Nah, couldn't be...


>It's a funny thing to me that no one ever points this out in advance. Where were the articles about Boeing's move from an engineering culture to a financial one?

I had a google out of curiosity.

There was this from 2003: https://slate.com/business/2003/12/how-boeing-blew-it.html

>...The trouble is that his successor, Harry Stonecipher, is very much of the short-term-profits school... ...As one aircraft worker told a Seattle newspaper reporter after hearing the news of Stonecipher’s accession: “We are doomed.”

Although I don't know if that was really in advance - they had problems then too.


>In Europe things are more regulated

Meanwhile, they are rioting over gas taxes and speed limit changes.


>I find it amusing that from a climate change point of view, both their comments are basically negative:

It's almost like countries like Germany (350k sq km area) and the US (10 million sq km) have different climates and needs. This thread is filled with Europeans saying, "I went to the US once, and their grocery store didn't have produce like my French neighborhood market!"


You're making so many assumptions in 1 short comment that it's hard to dismiss all of them without writing a novel. But still, this is HN, so let's go:

- I'm not German and most of my points apply in quite a bit of the EU

- the EU is about 4m sqkm, which while smaller than the US, puts them in roughly the same ballpark (they'd both qualify as "huge countries")

- the EU as a whole has at least as diverse climates as the US

- I'm not even sure what to respond to the "needs" part

- I've been to the US more than once, to different places

Let's track back a bit and find out what exactly your argument against high quality German windows is.

Is it that you don't need them in hot climates? You do, to reduce the need for cooling.

Is it that you don't need them in cold climates? I don't even know what to reply to this :-)

Is it that you don't need them in Mediterranean climates, a la California (stable relatively warm and dry climate)? Even there, there is variation, houses do need heating and cooling and it can't hurt to have better windows. I'll grant you this, but that's probably an area which is 1/30th or less of the US territory.

Or was it about normal drying vs tumble drying? The only solid argument against normal drying that I can find is that normal drying requires more space (and a bit more time, but you can easily plan around that). But US homes, on average, are way bigger than EU homes. So Americans could easily find room to dry their clothes. If I can do it in 65sqm, an American definitely can do it in 120+ sqm.


>the EU as a whole has at least as diverse climates as the US

It's laughable to talk about "the EU" as if it's in any way homogeneous. It's an economic union, not a country. We are talking about France and Germany, which are tiny and far less diverse in their climate than the US.

>I'm not even sure what to respond to the "needs" part

Perhaps you're unaware that there are places in the US that have frigid winters, and others that have debilitating summer heat. But please, tell us about how you don't need air conditioning in France. That fact is relevant to those in Arizona.

>Let's track back a bit and find out what exactly your argument against high quality German windows is.

My argument here is that it's ridiculous to think that we don't have or use "high quality windows" in North America because you once had friends over to your home that were impressed.


> My argument here is that it's ridiculous to think that we don't have or use "high quality windows" in North America because you once had friends over to your home that were impressed.

That is indeed ridiculous, I agree! You're the one inferring that story though. I'm not about to write an essay with quotations of industry figures and national polls here.


> My argument here is that it's ridiculous to think that we don't have or use "high quality windows" in North America because you once had friends over to your home that were impressed.

I'm not the original poster :-)


[flagged]


> even though it's against the rules to downvote someone because you disagree.

No, this is not true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314


> You have offended Europeans, therefore you get tons of downvotes

From the Guidelines:

> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

Also:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.


Please follow the guidelines as follows: > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.


>I was comparing supermarket breads in Europe and the US

Every major supermarket I've ever been to in the US and Canada has a million styles of bread, including many freshly baked right there at the store.

>but ultimately we're talking about a lower quality product at a higher price

Do you have evidence for lower quality, outside of the roundly debunked "shelf life" argument? Or are these your preferences?


A million styles of bad bread in comparison to any one of the cheap loaves available in a German market. In many major US supermarkets, the freshly baked product is worse than the stale packaged product. Try it at your local albertsons or walmart. It's acceptable if you eat it warm and after that you can use it as a sponge to soak up spills. The $7 artisan whatever quarter of a loaf at Whole Foods is maybe in the same ballpark as what you find in Germany and you still have to be lucky enough to get it fresh. The normal packaged rectangular bread loaves people buy in the US are what we called "toaster bread" in Europe (bread to only be eaten toasted).

What would you consider objectively lower quality anyway? Is use of preservatives and corn syrup lower quality, or is that a preference for shelf life and sweets? Is a McDonalds burger low quality or is that just preference? I can take you to a generic bakery in my old rural small town in Germany where the 25-cent pretzel would blow the socks off any pretzel you can find for any price in any store in the US, but maybe you'd call that preference.


I love how long the bread argument thread is getting.

Reminds me of coffee discussions. “Peet’s is good coffee!”, “No it’s shit, you don’t know good coffee!”, “You just have an unsophisticated palate!”.


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