> It reports that, in a large national survey, 65 percent of Americans expressed the belief that they are smarter than a typical person.
...
> Looking at education level, 73 percent of people with college degrees asserted they were more intelligent than average.
> “Given that the average college graduate has an IQ of approximately 13 to 15 points above the population mean,” the researchers write, “college graduates in our sample actually slightly underestimated their relative intelligence,”
Is it really that shocking of a result that 15% of people below average intelligence would overestimate their ability? However, as the research you linked points out the ones most likely to underestimate are college graduates. Which includes the American CS graduates we're talking about in this thread.
Maybe, just maybe! It could be the American CS Grads we're being told are "overestimating" their skills are actually underestimating them. As this research implies.
I won't bother wasting a lot of words on how people perceive americans, nor about how obviously not all americans are "trump & co."
Hopefully, I'm not overestimating my reading comprehension ;-)
> Hopefully, I'm not overestimating my reading comprehension ;-)
I am afraid you have :-) Where did you get your 15%? It is actually 65% of the population that overestimates itself.
If you wanted to talk actual numbers you would have read the study referred to in the article. Here it is; 65% of Americans believe they are above average in intelligence: Results of two nationally representative surveys - https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... In particular; read carefully the section "Education: Are beliefs calibrated?" since that clarifies your misunderstanding.
Like all statistical studies there can be discussions on sampling/methodology/distributions/etc. but the overall conclusion seems definite viz. last para;
Despite these limitations, we conclude that Americans’ self-flattering beliefs about intelligence are alive and well several decades after their discovery was first reported. Our results update the textbook phenomenon of intelligence overconfidence by (1) replicating the effect using large, representative, contemporary samples and two distinct survey methods, (2) demonstrating a degree of calibration across levels of education, and (3) showing moderation based on sex and age. The endurance of the smarter-than-average effect is consistent with the possibility that a tendency to overrate one’s own abilities is a stable feature of human psychology.
And i might add, more pronounced in the American Culture than others. For more understanding on this see Richard Nisbett's The Geography of Thought: How Asians and Westerners Think Differently...and Why - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geography_of_Thought
According to many economists, the presence of immigrant workers in the United States creates new job opportunities for native-born workers. This occurs in five ways. First, immigrant workers and native-born workers often have different skill sets, meaning that they fill different types of jobs. As a result, they complement each other in the labor market rather than competing for the exact same jobs. Second, immigrant workers spend and invest their wages in the U.S. economy, which increases consumer demand and creates new jobs. Third, businesses respond to the presence of immigrant workers and consumers by expanding their operations in the United States rather than searching for new opportunities overseas. Fourth, immigrants themselves frequently create new businesses, thereby expanding the U.S. labor market. Fifth, the new ideas and innovations developed by immigrants fuel economic growth.
Similarly, a recent study found that, between 2005 and 2018, an increase in the share of workers within a particular occupation who were H-1B visa holders was associated with a decrease in the unemployment rate within that occupation. Another recent study found that restrictions on H-1B visas (such as rising denial rates) motivate U.S.-based multinational corporations to decrease the number of jobs they offer in this country. Instead, the corporations increase employment at their existing foreign affiliates or open new foreign affiliates—particularly in India, China, and Canada. A study conducted in 2019 revealed that higher rates of successful H-1B applications were positively correlated with an increased number of patents filed and patent citations. Moreover, such startups were more inclined to secure venture capital funding and achieve successful IPOs or acquisitions.
The available data also indicate that H-1B workers do not earn low wages or drag down the wages of other workers. In 2021, the median wage of an H-1B worker was $108,000, compared to $45,760 for U.S. workers in general. Moreover, between 2003 and 2021, the median wage of H-1B workers grew by 52 percent. During the same period, the median wage of all U.S. workers increased by 39 percent. In FY 2019, 78 percent of all employers who hired H-1B workers offered wages to H-1B visa holders that were higher than what the Department of Labor had determined to be the “prevailing wage” for a particular kind of job.
This wouldn't be happening if the tech companies hadn't shut out so many college grads from entry level jobs. The tech industry had the power to curb h1b abuse but they didn't. This is the consequence.
In the 90s, the Tech Industry in the US grew at such a pace that you simply did not have enough supply of domestic college grads. It was the H-1Bs who saved and cemented the US's dominance in the Tech Industry.
Not the point. The rest of the world (specifically EU and China) has played catch-up and if the US wants to maintain its Tech dominance, you still need H-1Bs to maintain your momentum.
I think the combination of birth rates in China and Russia banging on the door of the EU is going to help the US more than H1Bs for the US. With current demographics, the US is slated to be more populous than China at the turn of the next century.
Doesn't matter if you guys shun out the immigrant population and let ignoramuses multiply, while forcing American universities to toe the federal government's line for federal funding.
In China's case, the population decrease is actually a positive for them since they are primarily an exports-driven economy. A lower population means investing into automation at an extensive degree to retain the same production levels, without the need to feed that much of a population. And if China really needs an extra labour pool, they have no qualms doing the Middle Eastern playbook and bringing in tons of workers from low-wage countries to do the dirty jobs - in fact, they already do that with Africans.
Russia is in trouble though, but given that their industries are slowly being eaten by Chinese conglomerates, they are a has-been now.
Ok. I think you drink the coolaid of China far too much. The problem with Chinas production has much more to do with the fact it has a substantial imbalance in consumption and production. This is what is at the root of why the involution crackdown has by in large failed to yield results (.4% contraction CPI; 2.9% PPI); countries are increasingly shutting out the state sponsored production endorsed by the CPC in favor of domestic or better balanced trade partners.
Without the large population not to perform "dirty jobs" but to participate in Chinese society to generate domestic demand, it is unlikely that China will continue to require ongoing stimulus just to keep the economic model functioning. See this (https://www.omfif.org/2025/03/china-has-just-raised-its-debt...) regarding the increase in debt held by China and its localities.
This need for "permastimulus" just to keep the economic model working is the problem: China needs to be rebalancing its economy away from production and into consumption. Unfortunately, a declining population also has declining consumption.
>The available data also indicate that H-1B workers do not earn low wages or drag down the wages of other workers. In 2021, the median wage of an H-1B worker was $108,000, compared to $45,760 for U.S. workers in general.
You can't compare tech salaries to general salaries. The entire thing seems disingenous.
It's common sense that when your immigration status is tied to your job performance you will skip out on other things in your life.
You've never been that in that position but I have been there. I was super-productive but catastrophically stressed as well. It's not a way to live life for more than 6 months.
> You've never been that in that position but I have been there.
I lived in the US for a decade-and-half transitioning from H-1B to "Green Card holder". It is another matter that i gave up all and returned back a decade ago.
“Manufacturing consent” should be required reading for all Americans.
These economists expressed the correct viewpoint that benefits the capital class so their viewpoint and credentials are validated and legitimized. “Right-thinking economists” are promoted while economists that have views that dont benefit multinational corporate interest are pushed to the fringes.
This is extremely well documented and when you see it spelled out in the book you will not be able to see the world in the same way.
Lex Friedman was nobody until he published a study that self driving cars were safe while Elon musk was in the midst of legal battles for his cars killing people. Lex Friedman is a “right thinking” academic so next thing you know Elon musk is talking on his podcast calling Lex “the smartest person in the world” despite having almost no credentials.
“The individual who burns with desire for action but does not know what to do is a common type in our society. He wants to act for the sake of justice, peace, progress, but does not know how. If propaganda can show him this ‘how’ then it has won the game; action will surely follow.”
It is the distribution that matters at a wage level cluster defined by DOL. There are four (i.e. entry, qualified, experienced, and fully competent) and those are higher than the medians.
According to many economists, the presence of immigrant workers in the United States creates new job opportunities for native-born workers. This occurs
in five ways. First, immigrant workers and native-born workers often have different skill sets, meaning that they fill different types of jobs. As a result, they complement each other in the labor market rather than competing for the exact same jobs. Second, immigrant workers spend and invest their wages in the U.S. economy, which increases consumer demand and creates new jobs. Third, businesses respond to the presence of immigrant workers and consumers by expanding their operations in the United States rather than searching for new opportunities overseas. Fourth, immigrants themselves frequently create new businesses, thereby expanding the U.S. labor market. Fifth, the new ideas and innovations developed by immigrants fuel economic growth.
Similarly, a recent study found that, between 2005 and 2018, an increase in the share of workers within a particular occupation who were H-1B visa holders was
associated with a decrease in the unemployment rate within that occupation. Another recent study found that restrictions on H-1B visas (such as rising denial rates) motivate U.S.-based multinational corporations to decrease the number of jobs they offer in this country. Instead, the corporations increase employment at their existing foreign affiliates or open new foreign affiliates—particularly in India, China, and Canada. A study conducted in 2019 revealed that higher rates of successful H-1B applications were positively correlated
with an increased number of patents filed and patent citations. Moreover, such startups were more inclined to secure venture capital funding and achieve successful IPOs or acquisitions.
The available data also indicate that H-1B workers do not earn low wages or drag down the wages of other workers. In 2021, the median wage of an H-1B worker
was $108,000, compared to $45,760 for U.S. workers in general. Moreover, between 2003 and 2021, the median wage of H-1B workers grew by 52 percent. During
the same period, the median wage of all U.S. workers increased by 39 percent. In FY 2019, 78 percent of all employers who hired H-1B workers offered wages to H-1B visa holders that were higher than what the Department of Labor had determined to be the “prevailing wage” for a particular kind of job.
“Pshaw, my dear fellow, what do the public, the great unobservant public, who could hardly tell a weaver by his tooth or a compositor by his left thumb, care about the finer shades of analysis and deduction! But, indeed, if you are trivial, I cannot blame you, for the days of the great cases are past. Man, or at least criminal man, has lost all enterprise and originality. As to my own little practice, it seems to be degenerating into an agency for recovering lost lead pencils and giving advice to young ladies from boarding-schools.
-- From "The Adventure of the Copper Beeches" in The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes.
Every kid should be given a copy of the complete Sherlock Holmes canon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_of_Sherlock_Holmes) This will turn them towards learning and practicing "The Art of Deduction (or Ratiocination according to Edgar Allan Poe)" like nothing else and will directly lead to them understanding the importance of Logic and Science/Mathematics in today's world.
For example, as a kid growing up in 80s India, i read whatever i could get my hands on (eg. Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, Enid Blyton, Alistair Maclean, Desmond Bagley, Frederick Forsyth etc. etc.) but none of them really made a mark. Then somebody gave me a copy of "The Case-Book of Sherlock Holmes" and i was zapped. Here was somebody who focused on reasoning and showed you the steps involved. Of course once you grew-up you realized that much of the "Deductions" were far-fetched/implausible but nevertheless the fire was lit. It directly led to my interest in Science/Mathematics and then a career in Software (much of Holmes' methods are directly applicable to Debugging).
Other then hardcore embedded guys and/or folks dealing with legacy C code, I and most folks i know almost always use C++ in various forms i.e. "C++ as a better C", "Object-Oriented C++ with no template shenanigans", "Generic programming in C++ with templates and no OO", "Template metaprogramming magic", "use any subset of C++ from C++98 to C++23" etc. And of course you can mix-and-match all of the above as needed.
C++'s multi-paradigm support is so versatile that i don't know why folks on HN keep moaning about its complexity; it is the price you pay for the power you get. It is the only language that i can program in for itty-bitty MCUs all the way to large complicated distributed systems on multiple servers plus i can span all of applications to systems to bare-metal programming.
In practice, C++ is a language family more than a single programming language. Every C++ project I've worked on essentially had its own idiolect of C++.
This is just a oft-repeated cliche and nothing more. Because C++ is a multi-paradigm language (with admittedly some less than ideal syntax/semantic choices) people overstate its complexity without much study/experience. Herd mentality than takes over and people start parroting and spreading the canard.
For the power and flexibility that C++ gives you, it is worth one's time to get familiar with and learn to use its complexity.
That is just silly; you don't need to read the entire specification to learn to use the language subsets productively as pointed out in my original comment here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45278216
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