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weird that you bring milk up as an example, because this is an industry where regulations tend to make sure milk prices stay high and production stays low; really there are not many examples of food subsidies/regulations that aim to reduce prices and increase supply, at least not in the developed world


Hm, I brought it up because its a staple item that everyone seems to need, but upon reflection that would make it a target for subsidy to reduce the inflation metrics.


But, are these approved by the American Ladder Institute? https://www.americanladderinstitute.org


I think the better question is: do they do the job the SFFD requires them to do?

Given one of the ladders talked about in the article was over 60 years old and still in service, I think the safe answer is: yeah, they do the job.


How is that different from say broadcast TV or any other media though? Or are you saying that ads are their product as well?


Yes.

Whatever creates the revenue is the product that is being sold. Broadcast TV creates content for the purpose of attracting viewers that watch the ads that are sold as ad space/time for revenue. Product placement within the content plays a role as well.

I don't understand how this isn't clearly understood. That's been the business model for broadcast TV since pretty much the beginning. It hasn't been a secret, the networks have been rather clear about it.


Actually looking at other things the woman making the "toxic wasteland" comment wrote, I certainly don't agree with her on everything, but I'd say she actually makes a lot of good points. Particularly about how delivery style matters.

And yet, her comment itself is clearly an exaggeration (let's be real, no one is going to take up the $10K challenge), and is just as toxic as anything she mentions. It just shows that it is always far easier to see problems and possible fixes in other people's behavior, than in your own.


Very well said and well done grasping exactly my issue - that calling SO a toxic wasteland isn't correct nor helpful.


What is particularly toxic about this comment though?

I would actually agree that there won't be many poor/minority people participating, but that has more to do with the challenge itself, not the fee. Poor people buy a lot of lottery tickets, particularly when the chance of winning is high. The issue here is that the chances of winning are not high, so the only reason someone would try and go after the prize would be to prove a point, and spending a lot of time and effort to prove a point like this one is a luxury many people don't have.


TBH, I find it difficult to see value in that particular line of research: it stands to reason that there would be a link between advertising and consumption in all age groups, so spending money to confirm that seems wasteful. Also, I haven't checked, but I'd be surprised if there hadn't already been some studies done on this.

Of course the reason some people are upset is because they would like to see restrictions on advertising, and were hoping another study would give them another argument in favor of such. But a positive result does not imply that such restrictions are necessary.


Yes, I'd be more concerned if they were suppressing studies that have to do with actual health effects.


I'm much more of an emacs than vim user, but the "wrong IDE" part is not quite true. Most IDEs support the common languages that you've listed, but once you go a bit further into domain specific, it is not as common any more. Speaking of what I'm familiar with (statistics), even SAS is supported in a very spotty manner, or at least was last time I've checked, and this is a popular language that has been around longer than C. At best you would get some limited R support, which really pales in comparison to what you can get in Emacs (and surely vim). Sure, sometimes they have their own IDEs (RStudio is quite good, and so is Matlab's IDE), but they have their own issues. I'm sure the same is true for lots of other DSLs.


I think you are right, but: how about tools like Excel, which is very non-linear, and yet it seems to be easier to pick up, and less intimidating, for complete newcomers compared to traditional programming?


Excel is, to me, an example of an alternative means of arranging logic that is very well suited to a specific subset of problems. You'll notice that people aren't typically building general-purpose applications with Excel. It's clearly not a replacement for a general-purpose language. But it is also clearly a more "natural" fit for it's niche of problems.

Actually, I think that this line of thinking holds a lot of promise: building specific tools well-tailored to solving specific types of problems. I think we could easily find models and alternate modes of thinking that outperform text for given domains.

I guess my argument is that as humans language is our most fluent medium for communicating abstractions. In the general case I don't think it will be outperformed.


Sure, it might not be general purpose, but the "niche" is really quite large: there aren't too many websites written in Excel, but there aren't many written in C++ either :) I am really not a fan of Excel overuse, but it happens, so I think there must be something about it that makes its programming model attractive to people.

For one, constructs like loops that we have mostly internalized as natural, can look a bit intimidating to non-programmers (they are not found in regular language either though!). Even among fairly experienced coders, for example in statistical programming, people who come from general-purpose coding background sometimes find loops easier to read and write compared to "vectorized" code, and vice versa.

Thinking about it, the way say much Java code is written is not what I would call a linear language either, although that I suspect might be more a result of path dependence and optimizing for "large teams of replaceable programmers".


TBH I see a plenty of the arguments on the other side too, whenever a company does something people disagree with, there are calls for regulation. Even further, there are lots of people here who get annoyed when they see someone just skirting the rules without literally breaking them and always argue for the most expansive interpretation.

I think some people just naturally like rules and would prefer to live in a more orderly, rule based society, and some people don't like the idea of being constrained. Both groups act quite sanctimoniously though, as if their personal preference is somehow the holy truth.


Do we actually know what data has been leaked/illegitimately retained/whatever you call it?

A lot of the discussion revolves around friends data -- was all friends data accessible regardless of the friends' own privacy setting (this would be deeply troubling), or was it the data that friends shared with the app users (a bit less troubling, but still very questionable), or was it friends' data that was openly available on their public profiles open to any internet user?


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