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[dupe] Kickstarter Campaign Produces Large Affordable CNC Cutting Machine (archdaily.com)
49 points by at-fates-hands on Nov 4, 2016 | hide | past | favorite | 18 comments



The OP should mention that this isn't the first time the creators have run a campaign. As a frequent reader of r/shittykickstarters, my initial reaction was "Someone ambituous wants someone else's money to produce something that sounds awesome but will probably fail in reality"...but these folks [0] have passed the main litmus test of actually delivering on their previous campaign [1], which means they're much less likely to fuck up like Coolest Cooler or the many other KS projects that amount to nothing, because they have supply-chain experience and realistic expectations.

(some examples of hopeful, non-scamming amateurs going down in flames are Peachy Printer, the $99 3D printer [2], and Zano, the nano drone [3])

[0] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1830738289/maslow-cnc-a...

[1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/makesmithcnc/makesmith-...

[2] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/117421627/the-peachy-pr...

[3] https://medium.com/kickstarter/how-zano-raised-millions-on-k...


Full disclosure: I'm the contractor that designed the USB version of the Peachy Printer, but have nothing to do with the YXE3D other than being a mentor of sorts to their electronics lead.

http://www.yxe3d.com

Last I heard, they're on the cusp of shipping what is essentially the Peachy in a better form factor with all of the rough edges worked out (eg successfully going through a laser safety classification). The Peachy was legitimately close to being a success, and had the other founder (who I've never met) not stolen the money, I'm pretty sure it would have shipped.

Still a bit grouchy about all that. I put a pile of creative engineering into the electronics and firmware, only to have the project scuttled by the finance fuck up. And while that team probably started out having insufficient experience building and shipping a product, they did a pile of learning and were on the cusp.

I'm very glad that yxe3d is keeping the design alive, it's just unfortunate that the Kickstarter backers won't be made whole.


How far is this from being able to print ikea furniture or a kitchen cabinets?


It's not accurate enough to do either :)

At least, you'd notice the issues.

Note that no cnc of this style will really ever produce raised panel kitchen cabinets.

Slab ones or fake raised panels out of MDF you could probably do, but gravity is on the wrong axis here, so i wouldn't expect great results for the latter.

You can't make real dovetail drawers without vertical holding, but you can make fake ones that look about right.

But there, they require something about 7-10x more accurate than this thing.

So the true answer is "really far".

Also note that cabinets are mostly plywood and not solid wood (because solid wood is not really stable enough), so you also need edge banding

I won't go into the finishing aspect.

Just to give you some idea of speed as well, most cabinet shops making cabinet parts do a sheet of parts in 5-10 minutes at 1200-1600ipm

This thing would take ~20-30x as long, minimum, to do the same sheet, at 48ipm, even if it was accurate to do so.

It's a minimum because you don't have the acceleration numbers here. The 1200-1600ipm ones are very fast accelerating machines so the average ipm is quite high.

No idea on the maslow (and i expect the "real world precision" goes down as the acceleration speed goes up. Even with a closed loop, it doesn't save you, because then it has settling time, etc)


Any idea what tolerances this thing is supposed to hold? As someone who started reading Hack A Day, then later became a machinist in a well equipped production shop, it kind of blows my mind how far off the hobbyist equipment is from production machinery (and most of them have no idea). After running Citizen screw machines, 4 and 5 axis mills, wire and sink EDMs, and dual spindle lathes which can hold ±.0005" all day, and grinders which hold ±.00005" it's somewhat grating listening to people say that desktop 3D printers and such will revolutionize the world.

Apart from that, this looks like a great platform for large crafts, engraving, and signage projects, but I expect it's manufacturing capacities to be rather limited. Another tool in the toolbox is never a bad thing.


It's horribly inaccurate even by desktop 3D printers standards. I'd be surprised if it can stay 1mm and the repeatability is probably non-existent


"Any idea what tolerances this thing is supposed to hold?"

They claim 1/64th "real world precision". It is supposed to be closed loop dc servo motors, which, if they close the loop back to the software (with the virtual encoders most servo drives produce), obviously means any positioning error is in the drive mechanism or pulse generation failure/signal error.

The encoder resolution sucks (8148 steps/rev), but since it's a fairly direct drive (i'm assuming 1 revolution is an inch for simplicity), you can lose a few steps on the generation side and not get too bad of results.

But the drive mechanism seems like it's impossibly sloppy. So i'm not sure i believe either the precision (i would have to believe the precision depends on speed), or that there is pretty much any repeatability.

I'm also assuming you are using no dust hose here, since the way they've done dust collection will deflect the x+y axis if there is any tension in the hose.

As for the rest you said, yeah, i'm with you. Getting good fitting joinery in woodworking is 0.005" or less (more than that and it's either too loose to fit well and will display very visible gaps).

Obviously, for cutting curves/etc, you can sand parts in woodworking (less easily in metal :P), but still .. if your box joints are slightly misaligned due to positioning error, it's a junk sheet.

While you are right that it will be nice for large crafts, i worry about two things: 1. The process of going from "drawing a thing on a napkin" to "cutting it out with this machine" is just never going to be that simple. Even experienced woodworkers using simple software like sketchup are nowhere near as fast at creating their design as they are just drawing it on paper. The reason we use computer programs is because they reduce error (IE i can see that i screwed up a calculation and the joints don't align). Or, in my case, because i'm nuts and when designing a high chair for a friend, i use the stress analysis module in solidworks or inventor to make sure it can support the weight ;)

Going from that to CAM (even 2.5D CAM like this thing supports), or figuring out what's wrong with the gcode, or ...

I think folks are seriously overestimating their desire to essentially debug a bunch of software just to cut a random thing. People spend tons of time, money, and energy getting to simple workflows.

That's, IMHO, pretty much not compatible with "want to do a one off thing occasionally"

In that realm, i think the shaper origin is a much better bet.

2. In the cabinet shop world, when the sheet comes out wrong they simply throw it out and do it again, because it only wastes 5 minutes and they are buying sheets in volume. Somehow, i don't think people really want to ruin that many pieces, either cost wise, or time wise. At 1/64th, it may ruin a lot of joints.

3. You can't nest which means, a lot of waste.

For those curious, here's what, for example, trying to make booth seats looks like:

http://www.woodweb.com/images_forums_public/cnc/Nest.png

The blue is all of what gets cut out.

The normal way this is done is vacuum hold down. The vacuum can pull vacuum despite the massive volume of emptiness there, and hold the parts (these are usually 20hp vacuums).

Since it will now be vertical, and there is no hold down, it's not possible to do anything close to this (without another mechanism, like screwing non-cut parts of each thing to a plywood sheet behind it, etc)


So in other words you're complimenting their efforts.

http://cdixon.org/2010/01/03/the-next-big-thing-will-start-o...


Sorry, i don't buy it. There are fundamental physical issues here.


FWIW: I think the better thing here (or the better approach) i probably the shaper origin. https://shapertools.com/

More expensive, for sure, but the possible future there seems much brighter.


Do you keep a blog? This was a great short read.


Does Ikea sell furniture with dovetailed joints?


Most of their furniture is jointed with dowels (which you can't side-slot on this machine) or cams (same problem).

They are mostly CNC, but they have horizontal heads in addition to the vertical ones.

By that token, it will literally never happen that you can put horizontal boring heads on this thing.

So you'd have to settle for "ikea-like" furniture.

There your main problems are not CNC related at all. They use a lot of bent laminations, etc.

I don't think the CNC is really going to help you much!


CNC don't print; they're subtractive. If you know how to design furniture, lay out and nest the parts, and program a CNC, they are the most wonderful tool in the shop.


CNC is computer numeric control. It is used in both subtractive and addative manufacturing processes, as well as in general automation (such as an assembly line robot arm).

Edit: "Machining" is specifically subtractive processes, which may or may not employ CNC.


I program and manage CNCs for a living. They are subtractive: they remove material; they don't add it. The abbreviation is not merely literal; its used to denote machining. You could call a 3-D printer a CNC, but they're not actually called that.


Yeah, but this thing literally can't ever nest :)




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