Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

The EU fined Microsoft six hundred million dollars just for including Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player in Windows by default. Apple's behavior is much worse than that.


How many times this old wives tale will have to be repeated till people understand what went on then, and how it's nothing like it's now?

Microsoft then had a monopoly on desktop OSes at the time, at 95+ (close to 97%, in fact).

Apple has a paltry sub-50% share of mobile OSes.

The "But they have 100% share on their own products" is not an argument, as far as the law is concerned, as monopolies are not judged this way. That's the same reason why you can't legally force McDonalds to also sell Burger King burgers, or GAP to sell Banana Republic clothes...

And even MS monopoly position wasn't the issue (having a monopoly naturally is not illegal). The issue was it used its monopoly position to threaten and bribe OEMs to not work with competitors.


Apple has a monopoly on iOS devices. An iApp only runs on iOS, so it's irrelevant that Apple is a minority of the mobile market because that's not the market being analyzed for the antitrust issues.


This logic makes no sense. Using your reasoning Nintendo is a monopoly because only Nintendo devices will run Nintendo games.


Nintendo is a monopoly with respect to Nintendo games (but not Nintendo devices, since you can buy those all over).

Monopolies aren't inherently illegal. See e.g., patents and copyrights, which are legally granted or protected monopolies.

What is illegal is anti-competitive practices. This doesn't require a dominant or even majority market position--authorities in the US and EU have gone after companies with relatively small market shares that engaged in anti competitive actions (though they haven't done so in many years).


>Nintendo is a monopoly with respect to Nintendo games

That's not what monopoly means legally.

>Monopolies aren't inherently illegal

That's true, but a vendor controlling their own store is not a monopoly.

Monopoly is when the vendor has 100% of the overall market...


Yes it is. Nintendo is a monopoly with respect to licensing games for sale on Nintendo consoles. Monopoly is market-specific under US law, and the regulators can get very specific.

From the DOJ guidance on antitrust law (https://www.justice.gov/atr/competition-and-monopoly-single-...)

Regarding the first element, it is "settled law" that the offense of monopolization requires "the possession of monopoly power in the relevant market."(5) As discussed in chapter 2, monopoly power means substantial market power that is durable rather than fleeting--market power being the ability to raise prices profitability above those that would be charged in a competitive market.(6)


iOS revenue is 2x larger than android. There might be more cheap android phones out there but Apple has the majority of high income individuals.


Which is not relevant. Monopoly is defined on a market, not on income segments (and even if it mattered, still on the high income individuals iOS is hardly above say 70%).

Someone could sell cars for $5K and have 99% of the car market in a small city of 1000 people, while another one sells a single car for 100M and has 20 times the other's revenue. It's still the cheap car guy that has the monopoly.


Revenue based market share is more relevant than unit market share for most businesses. Apple pulls in 2/3 of the revenue in the mobile app ecosystem and gets to act as a gatekeeper between most consumer startups and their potential customers.


>Revenue based market share is more relevant than unit market share for most businesses.

It's not relevant for monopoly law and whether it's a monopoly, which is what's discussed here...


Of course it's relevant. A definition of monopoly that only relies on raw unit numbers is obviously incomplete.

Antitrust is about power, and Apple has a lot of it.


>Of course it's relevant. A definition of monopoly that only relies on raw unit numbers is obviously incomplete.

We don't get to pick our "complete" definition we prefer because "we deserve free money/mobile platform access". There's an actual, legal, one...

>Antitrust is about power, and Apple has a lot of it.

Only in the same sense that McDonalds has power not to sell Burger King burgers, and a shop owner has owner to sell whatever the duck they want.

Not power related to monopoly over the mobile market or the app market in general.


The legal definition of antitrust has changed over time and can change again, especially if Warren becomes president.


So...?


Apple does not have a monopoly in the mobile phone market like Microsoft had in the operating system market.

Microsoft also had a court order to comply with that they forgot about in Windows 7. https://www.engadget.com/2013/03/06/microsoft-european-commi...


Microsoft never had a monopoly in the OS market. Plenty of businesses large and small used competing OSs like Apple, Unix, Linux, Beos, OS/2, DOS, etc.

Microsoft had a dominant market position, and anti-competitively leveraged that market position in operating systems to muscle its way into the internet browser market.


Windows had 97% marketshare. MacOS, BeOS, OS/2, DOS, the various *nixes and Linux were NOTHING in that market.


IMO, that fine is (for lack of a better term) bullshit. Does Android present a browser selection to EU customers?


No, but there are at least three running or finished antitrust cases going against Google from the EU, for Google Shopping, AdSense and Android; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_vs._Google for a summary.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: