I find it reasonable that an OS doesn't let you remove what may be the only browser on the system, for a lot of reasons.
I read this as a push to really ditch IE in the very near future, and don't really mind at all.
In no particular order
- Something has to provide a native webview for desktop applications
- MS has no default package manager for users, and doesn't provide browser downloads on their "store" (or at least I wasn't able to find any, I may be missing something). So removing the browser may leave a user unable to bootstrap another browser onto the system (at least once IE is actually gone) without outside help or another machine.
- The browser itself takes up a pretty negligible amount of disk space, there isn't really any benefit to removing it (unless MS is playing dirty and starting it behind the scenes, but at least in my usage, I haven't seen this). So these users don't want it "GONE", they just want to desktop shortcut removed (and I actually agree, MS shouldn't push as hard here).
- There are lots of system integrations that expect at least one browser to exist, removing the only shipped browser may break these, or add a lot of complexity to some feature implementations.
Cant MS just provide a button somewhere that downloads and installs the browser? A computer doesn't need a browser to download something from the internet (such as a browser).
Do I use that window app store to configure my router or internet connection? How about if you have a corporate account and log in through a connector like okta, which display a web page for login? How about when firefox and half your os gets infected and deleted by your av -will a windows install disk bring back your browser so you can download firefox again?
Being able to show a webpage is an essential function of all modern operating systems. the included browser is a part of windows, much like notepad and vi, or a package manager (programs control panel in windows), or regedit. You are free to add a browser of your choice. The one that's part of the base os image is not your choice, and is supported by the os vendor, as part of the os. You want an os interface to let you frankenstein your os with custom parts and make it unsupported? You have one. You, as an advanced user, can remove edge with powershell very easily.
re: router config - Windows has Captive Portal support and all routers which require config will intercept dns requests to msftconnecttest.com and redirect to the local IP of the router which Windows will show in a modal window
re: corporate account - The WebBrowser component (MSTML/Trident) will never be removed because it would require replacing a huge part of the OS that handles this, in too many places, and it won't be replaced with WebView based on CrEdge because that has no support for proprietary Microsoft controls.
Had to look it up, and I was wrong on connector needing a browser.
As far as routers, captive portal launches a browser on my pc, not a modal dialog. And none of the routers I have do what you say. I have to plug in a cable and go to the gateway ip. In a browser.
I don't think it's that, rather it makes it nigh impossible because the browsers will have to be rewritten to use UWP APIs, which were quite limited when they first launched. Also they won't be able to compete with Edge which had access to restricted APIs
What if your router needs some manual configuration through the web interface?
I'm not convinced there is much to gain from letting Edge be uninstalled through normal means as long as it's not consuming resources other than some disk space when you're not using it.
But then what's the difference between edge being installed and merely not-yet-unpacked? Like, it's still there. The installer could just create a shortcut and say that it's installed now, would that be enough? Seems silly.
There's also always the option MS could have done, disable uninstall of the last browser on the os, whichever that may be. So if you have chrome, edge and firefox and you remove 2 of them, trying to uninstall the third one would give a warning or stop you or something.
this was already solved ten years ago when Microsoft was fined half a billion bucks by the EU for promoting their own browser this way and disadvantaging competition
There's not too much point in citing this ruling anymore since it would never go this way again. Every non-Windows OS ships with a default browser (including Linux distros!) and locked-down platforms like TVs, DVD players, iOS, consoles, fridges, you can't even install another browser.
I call b.s. on that. Edge does actively check and scrape data from other browsers so it knows it isn't the last or default browser. You don't need a browser to use a windows workstation with pre-installed productivity apps. You might find edge itself is undesirable on your systems because people try to use it to access sites and you din't to support edge operationally or vulnerability management.
I thought the 90s anti-trust lawsuit against MS was exactly about this?
> So removing the browser may leave a user unable to bootstrap another browser onto the system (at least once IE is actually gone) without outside help or another machine.
Which is a complex string you need to google, as opposed to the cli command that easily uninstalls edge. How will you download this if you just moved out of your mom's house and bought a laptop and a router? How do you set up that router? Displaying a web page is part of the core os. You don't have to use explorer.exe as a file manager either, nor /bin/sh.
Cool, let's not. Let's not pretend I want to to type that long thing from my phone simply because my os doesn't have a web browser. If you want to, no one's stopping you. I want the basic tools included and always working.
I can agree with this. To me, a computer being able to display a website, in 2020, is basic functionality. Something my phone and refrigirator can do is something a full blown computer should be able to do out of the box. For an os that includes basic photo editing software, hypertext editing, video and music players, and game system integration, displaying a webpage is a basic tool. Just like a basic toolset from lowes is expected to have a screwdriver.
I think you are defining a computer OS as a basic OS -like TRON on a microwave. It is not -it's a multi-GB platform, and a basic tool included in it is not a basic tool you'd expect from a microwave. But these days, some microwaves also include a browser.
Much like airbags are a basic safety feature, but were not 20 years ago. Much like vi was a basic feature. But why include vi, when all you need is ed?
Yeah, I'm not really sure what all the hate is about. MS shipping and updating their browser as an OS component is super reasonable and not unexpected at all.
Like there's plenty of reason to be mad at all the different ways MS pushes Edge in Windows but shipping it with Windows Update would be pretty low on my list.
It does go full screen, lock focus, and pin itself to the taskbar on first launch. Some have reported that i copied in their settings/bookmarks from Chrome without user prompt too but it did not for me.
the only dumb part is that they don't explain this in the linked help page. clearly users are looking for an answer of why they can't uninstall edge.
instead of the answer being you can't install edge because it's too awesome to be uninstalled, why not just tell people that you can't uninstall it because other apps would break.
That way, whenever an app opens a link, it opens in a browser I don't use, and it can't read any important information or browser fingerprint that matters.
I am still using Firefox for my browsing needs.
EDIT: It's more about my browsing habits: Now this browser has been opened. I can close it before the page loads and before I have read anything I really don't care about.
If you can't trust the apps that you're running on an unsandboxed system, getting fingerprinted should be the least of your worries. Since there's no sandbox, it could very well keylog everything you type, or steal your browsing history/login cookies directly from your browser.
Well, some applications open a webpage just when the uninstallation finishes.
Basically every single browser window that is open from an application, or its uninstaller, is an unwanted one.
It's not even about the fingerprinting, now that you make me think about.
It's more about my browsing habits: Now this browser has been opened. I can close it before the page loads and before I have read anything I really don't care about.
I'm failing to see the reason for outrage here. Apple won't allow removing Safari from macOS without turning off system protection and then it will get reinstalled next OS upgrade. Heck you can't even remove the chess game on macOS without turning off system protection.
Maybe I’m in a minority, but it’s really a pretty good browser. I wish it supported a few more features with the PDF reader (such as text box annotations). However, it still has way more features in that space than most competitors.
I've briefly played around with it and it seems alright. I just don't trust Microsoft from a privacy perspective, and I don't want to reward their shitty behavior of pushing it on users.
Are you on LinkedIn? Using Github? Using Office 365? Outlook?
If 'no' to all of the above then you probably don't need to worry about Microsoft, but beware, they are in more places than you might think because they - very cleverly - keep these properties at arms length from a branding perspective. But that doesn't mean that there is a Chinese wall there through which no data could move.
I tend to agree. It's a great PDF reader, and seems snappy on the web overall. The only reason I'm sticking with Chrome for the latter is basically laziness and Google ecosystem buy-in.
Agree about the PDF viewer. I love how you can draw on PDFs which is a godsend in meetings. Edge will eventually become the de facto Chrome install on Windows 10, IMO.
I use it because it's super simple to have launchers for different profiles pinned to the taskbar. It's convenient to have one logged in to my personal account and one logged in to my MS365 work account.
I also use Firefox for tab containers, but Edge has been my default browser for a while now.
That was my take, too. I really don't mind if the vendor has a standard browser installed, as long as you can install others and make it the default. That's way more than Apple does on iOS!
The strangest part is that they didn’t fully replace the behavior of the old version. If you place the OS in kiosk mode when the new Edge is installed and try to run a browser, it just goes into a loop trying to load the old one and blocking it. It’s not possible to use the new Edge for a kiosk, probably because it doesn’t use the Windows store. There is a separate kiosk browser in the store, but it isn’t integrated with the OS and lacks any simple configuration options. Maybe they just want people to use Linux kiosks instead.
More like one day you turn on windows and it takes over your boot process, has a splash screen, walks you through "your newest browser", adds things to your desktop, changes associations to things.
Given Microsoft's recent initiatives in the developer experience space they should have a developer edition of Windows. I can see why Microsoft would pull this crap on tech-illiterate Home users but Pro edition should be left alone
There could certainly be a way to provide Edge via the Store and not force it on users. Possibly the reason it's not done that way is because there appears to be hard links to it. Despite setting Firefox as the default things still open in Edge, like from the Search in the Start Menu and from Settings help pages etc. Maybe there's a way to fix this but it feels wrong to me. And it also doesn't need to keep pinning itself to the task bar either.
Don't what to transform this to Whataboutism but it really annoys me that I can't uninstall the apps on OSX which are clearly optional: TV, Podcasts, Music, Garageband, Safari etc etc. Was actually excited about iTunes splitting into multiple apps because I was expecting to be able to split up the app size into optionals that I could remove - nope
i suspect that people not so much don't want the browser. they could ignore it if that were the case, but that they are annoyed by its invasive behavior.
if microsoft would just stop to shove the browser into peoples face after they have already said that they prefer another, then there wouldn't be so many complaints
I don't understand why this is an issue.
You can't uninstall Safari on OSX( some people here in the comments say you actually can delete it, but this will probably leave you broken system) or ios. You can't uninstall Chrome on Android.
Need to make a heavy criticism on the article but: Maybe don't link the competitor's trends page as trustworthy information?
Google's been known to artificially demote industries/products they don't like and promote the crap out of their own. I am not asserting that it's the case here but it could be the case and non-shit journalism wouldn't ask a biased party for market data on their competitor.
I find it reasonable that an OS doesn't let you remove what may be the only browser on the system, for a lot of reasons.
I read this as a push to really ditch IE in the very near future, and don't really mind at all.
In no particular order
- Something has to provide a native webview for desktop applications
- MS has no default package manager for users, and doesn't provide browser downloads on their "store" (or at least I wasn't able to find any, I may be missing something). So removing the browser may leave a user unable to bootstrap another browser onto the system (at least once IE is actually gone) without outside help or another machine.
- The browser itself takes up a pretty negligible amount of disk space, there isn't really any benefit to removing it (unless MS is playing dirty and starting it behind the scenes, but at least in my usage, I haven't seen this). So these users don't want it "GONE", they just want to desktop shortcut removed (and I actually agree, MS shouldn't push as hard here).
- There are lots of system integrations that expect at least one browser to exist, removing the only shipped browser may break these, or add a lot of complexity to some feature implementations.