Usually hn is very positive towards young folks doing stuff, and doesn't measure it by the bar that older people get measured by. Why is this different this time?
Also even then, you'll probably find people doing mistakes, committing hacks, etc all the time. It's like complaining that the initial Linux release doesn't support x86... Linus didn't write it for x86 originally.
I think the skepticism and criticism of this project is reasonable, given the marketing. Look at it: https://dahliaos.io/
> a modern, secure, lightweight and responsive operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS
The initial announcement and first couple years of development of linux had no logo or website or anything. Let's compare:
> a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones
I usually just move on without comment ... but I'm kinda annoyed by the trend of the "npm generation" to have all this slick marketing bluster for experimental "just for learning" projects. Go ahead and compare to https://gcc.gnu.org/ - much less slick, much less marketing bluster, much more important project.
This dahliaOS has apparently recently joined the Open Invention Network "joining the likes of Google, IBM, SpaceX, Huawei, Microsoft, Yamaha, Honda, System76, GNOME, Daimler" and is accepting donations. Meanwhile, the founder says:
> A lot of my stuff is learning about kernel development and is mostly what I do. I do a lot with porting devices to fuchsia, and tinkering with the zircon kernel. Thats mostly it.
If there was just a repo and the readme just said that, I don't think there would be any skepticism and criticism here, just some interest and encouragement. But with all this slick marketing, skepticism and criticism is a healthy balance.
That's perfectly understandable, I even feel that I went a little too "slick marketing" with the website, but I have extremely high, maybe even too high goals for the project.
Having high aspirations for your rock band is perfectly fine, but designing the album cover and the poster for the world tour when you only play some covers from other bands is probably not the best way to make yourself a name in the scene.
I don't know your project in particular so I don't know if this is what you are doing, but I agree with ploxiln in that it is a general trend nowadays.
> but designing the album cover and the poster for the world tour when you only play some covers from other bands is probably not the best way to make yourself a name in the scene.
It does seem to be a trend nowdays. I think the most fitting analogy to what we are doing is "Desigining the album cover for the world tour, when we only have a few songs for it." It most definitely is a little overerpresented on the website, but i'd say the goals and features are completely attainable, they are represented to be high when they are really standard features that are relatively easy to implement.
It's fine to have high (even unrealistic!) goals, but IMO you're doing your project a disservice by presenting it as if the future's already here.
I think it's a really interesting project but it's not an honest presentation (not in an exceptional way, it seems to be an existing trend in startup culture so it's understandable that people replicate it).
The wording is definitely a little brash and market-y, but I don't think there is anything on the site that is explicitly false, but of course it probably comes across as represented to be more finished than it actually is, which is a fair understanding.
> It's like complaining that the initial Linux release doesn't support x86... Linus didn't write it for x86 originally.
What the hell is this nonsense?
Linus was working on a terminal program for his 386 with native x86 task switching and that's the origin story of Linux. It's clearly recorded on the wikipedia page for the kernel, and he speaks to this in Just For Fun IIRC.
Hmmm I misremembered it then. Thanks for pointing this out.
My general point still stands though. His initial Linux announcement E-Mail has this line:
> It is NOT portable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.
So it wasn't very portable at the start. If you complained about it not being portable to different arches (idk which one was available at that time? SPARC? MIPS?), it would have been unfair. Everyone has to start somewhere.
If anything Linus was extra-humble when announcing it, kind of the opposite of what's going on here. This kind of marketing copy would be appropriate for a mature product, as it is it rubs some people the wrong way.
Startups do the same thing for their first few years. Some companies never drop this attitude. Tesla for example promises a ton of stuff like self driving, or just building proper cars where it doesn't rain inside [0], but they haven't delivered none of the two yet.
Like it or not, people like this kid run the world.
The tagline ("modern, secure, lightweight and responsive operating system, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS.") is brash and sets very high standards, so that might contribute a bit.
Besides, the comment you're replying on isn't really bashing them.
I didn’t mean for my comment to be an insult. It is as close to the truth as I remember, and was offered as an explanation for the potentially low code quality mentioned earlier in the thread.
It definitely isn't an insult :). I attempt to keep more quality and professionalism now, the earlier days of the project were, as they say, "turbulent". I do enjoy seeing criticism, as it guides us and often shows us points to improve, especially the code quality, which is being completely overhauled as we progress.
Being positive about young folk doesn't imply a confidence in the tech they produce. This applies just as much to Linus Torvalds as it does to everyone else: you'd be a fool to trust the disk image just based on his enthusiasm.
Also even then, you'll probably find people doing mistakes, committing hacks, etc all the time. It's like complaining that the initial Linux release doesn't support x86... Linus didn't write it for x86 originally.