You're looking at the wrong level of the problem. Engineers in Big Tech can make $250k because they're making even more money than that for their bosses - if they were paid less, it would just mean that the bosses and stockholders got paid more.
Same for startups, except there it's a VC betting that he'll make $50M if he gives 10 companies $2.5M so that they can each pay 10 engineers $250k.
We don't live in a system where what you "deserve" has anything to do with what you get; the factors are how much cash you're expected to bring in and how much leverage you have when splitting up that cash between you and the company.
Sure. I’m just expressing discomfort at how it became just “meh, it’s how it is”.
My issue is I just don’t see the world in this money focused way. From out here, in the land where it’s sort of average to earn maybe $50k and feel pretty good about that, it looks pretty sick. I don’t get it, I don’t like it, it feels disingenuous to support it with what seems to be an endless “it’s ok, everyone does it” or “that’s just how the system is” argument.
Maybe if those guys gave away 50% of their salaries to support good causes, I’d feel better about it. But I’m betting my ass they don’t.
Money is a tool for many things in life. Here are some things you get at $250k that you don't at $50k in a cheap place:
- Have enough financial security to know that you can weather most emergencies, medical bills, etc.
- Tip well and support your friends' businesses
- Retire before you're too old to enjoy it. Or take a sabbatical.
- Do good. Let's say you want to give $10k to charity. Very doable on $250k, but asking a lot on $50k.
- Buy more ethical products (whatever this means to you)
- Avoid a lot of the soul-crushing bullshit of everyday life. Car doesn't run? Landlord is trying to screw you? You can solve those problems with money.
There are a lot of rich assholes out there, but they would have been assholes even if they were poor. You won't turn into one if you have a different outlook.
Get a better job, you’re underpaid if you have the skill set to work in tech. Don’t take it out on everyone else because you’re selling your skills at below market value.
> Maybe if those guys gave away 50% of their salaries to support good causes, I’d feel better about it
Do you give away 50% of your salary? How would you feel about someone who only clears $30k claiming you don’t need that money and that you should give away 50%?
Introspect why you have tall poppy syndrome, it’s toxic and will hold you back.
I'm not an engineer, I'm a generalist who works in tech. I'm based in the UK, so no - I apparently have no idea about what it's like to live in the area. But that's not really my point. My point isn't about how expensive it is to live in SF, it's about looking at this bigger picture thing about money, how important it is, why the world (and let's face it, particularly the US and even more particularly the tech hot-spots of the US) is killing itself on 80 hour weeks for insane salaries but still being miserable and having to fill themselves with happy pills to get through the day, and meanwhile 90% of the world is scraping food out of a ditch. Sorry for being an idealist, or "out of touch" but I don't know how anyone can look at this and just say "yeh, I'm ok with that".
FWIW, some context:
- I live on a household income of maybe $100k for a family of 4, by the sea in Cornwall. We live what I would personally consider an extremely luxurious life: a 5 bed house, lots of space, lots of greenery, big skies, amazing seas, and time to look at them
- I work way less than a 40 hour working week. I work with non-profits. I love what I do. It makes me happy.
- I see my kids. I see my wife. I hang out with my friends. I have hobbies. I'm putting aside enough for a pension. No, I won't be able to retire at 50 (I'm 49!), and I'll probably still be doing this in 10 / 15 years' time. But it's fun, thoughtful work that (I hope) isn't going to kill me.
As you've asked - no, we don't give away 50% but we are gifting 10% of profits this year, to see what it means, and will likely be upping this and taking the Effective Altruism pledge next year. It's a small amount, but it feels important and the right thing to do.
I had to look up "tall poppy syndrome" - I'm getting old :-) To respond to this particular criticism - I mean, I guess I'd ask "what is success?" here. I don't know if there's a way of saying this without sounding highly antagonistic or patronising, but for me it's less about criticising those who have found "success" and more that I feel sad for people who think money is everything. It strikes me as the ultimate folly.
And thanks, but I don't feel held back. I feel pretty good. Anyway, It's 10am on a Friday morning and I should go start work ;-)
Same for startups, except there it's a VC betting that he'll make $50M if he gives 10 companies $2.5M so that they can each pay 10 engineers $250k.
We don't live in a system where what you "deserve" has anything to do with what you get; the factors are how much cash you're expected to bring in and how much leverage you have when splitting up that cash between you and the company.