Ivory combs are pretty sweet apparently, they're a lot nicer to use than wooden or plastic combs... I'm not seeing much outrage over the fact that we're being forced not to use them in the modern world.
People adjust - paper straws are servicable for most purposes, for things like bubble tea reusable straws are a reasonable investment (if you're having it often).
How many people do you know who have used an ivory comb? Were your grandparents even around when they were debating the ban? I find it hard to believe that people who enjoyed using ivory products 100 years ago would have supported banning them. It’s disingenuous to assume that the ban wasn’t controversial at the time just because nobody today has even heard of everyday items being made from ivory.
People adjusted because better materials came along. That’s the main reason governments were able to ban ivory: there was finally a viable alternative to piano keys and other everyday items made from ivory. Ironically, plastic was the wonder material that replaced ivory in many applications.
Few people remember what the pre-plastic world was like. It wasn’t better. It was hard to cheaply keep things sterile in hospial settings. Food spoiled faster without cheap, airtight storage containers. Everything was heavier or more flammable because wood, paper, or metal were the only comparable substitute materials.
Maybe we should be discussing how we discover the next wonder material that can make plastic obsolete instead of hand waving and saying “people will adjust” if we make it illegal to use and produce.
They weren't working when I used them--the top would gradually moisten, bend, and crack. I noticed the store switched back to plastic straws, so assume others had the same problem.
As another poster mentioned, this is with a plastic cup and lid (unfortunately).
As I mentioned in a sibling comment (specifically talking about bubble tea) metal straws are an excellent and, generally, superior alternative.
People don't pick plastic straws - companies pick plastic straws and they stir up anti-environmental outrage to reinforce their fiscally based decision.
Obligatory reminder of the persons and homes hit by blobs of frozen detritus ejected from airplane toilets mid-flight.
I think one-off examples of accidents are pretty unhelpful for discussions. Bamboo straws are also available alternatives and both those and disposable plastic straws can also cause fatal accidents - bubble tea straws in particular can easily break skin. There are also silicon straws available which might be the best option safety wise - even superior to plastic.
Metal straws don't noticeably increase the danger of drinking - but drinking while running or moving quickly is an action that can always increase the risk of accident - fatal or not.
That’s a trade off people should be able to make for themselves. You are arguing for a world in which the choice would not exist.
Such incidents would increase dramatically if people started using metal straws more frequently: think auto accidents while people are drinking through a metal straw.
As I mentioned - silicon straws are also available which are far safer than the plastic ones.
I, personally, have a metal straw since it looks pretty - but I don't use it all that often while walking... even while using disposable straws I generally didn't drink while walking.
If silicon straws are better, why don’t more people use them? I would posit that they’re not actually better, otherwise we’d see more widespread adoption.
Personally I don't drive so that doesn't really apply to me.
> If silicon straws are better, why don’t more people use them? I would posit that they’re not actually better, otherwise we’d see more widespread adoption.
This is a very poor argument, it's essentially the same as an appeal to the natural "X is older than Y thus X must be better than Y" - in this thread we're discussing straw usage from an American perspective where disposable plastics is the norm - stating that disposable plastics should continue to be the norm because they're currently the norm isn't very interesting. It's similar to the argument that we should never have switched off of leaded gasoline since everyone was fine with using leaded gasoline.
"Personally I don't drive so that doesn't really apply to me."
It would apply to everyone if you got your ban on plastic straws. People would switch to straws that were stiffer and made from alternative materials, sometimes using metal ones. They would be at higher risk of suffering an injury because of a ban.
And you would be at risk, too, because I'm certain that as someone with an internet connection, you frequently ride in a car, or use public transportation, or utilize some other form of transit that goes faster than a walking pace. Those same risks apply to you in those situations if there's an accident and you're drinking through a metal straw.
"...disposable plastics should continue to be the norm because they're currently the norm..."
That is not the argument I made. It is a strawman you raised to avoid answering my question. You were promoting silicon straws as superior, and I raised the question that, if they are so superior, why haven't they supplanted plastic straws?
We got rid of leaded gasoline because it was incompatible with catalytic converters required for tailpipe emissions. It's arguable that we might still be using it if it weren't for the Clean Air regulations. Avgas still contains lead because unleaded fuel is hard on engines, and in applications that require critical reliability, such as aircraft engines, switching to unleaded is a risk we're not willing to accept from a regulatory standpoint.
And more to your point, the car enthusiasts I work with lament the days of leaded gas. They have restored classic cars from the 50's and 60's and they've had to modify their engines to work with unleaded gasoline.
Your desire to paint plastic straws or leaded gas as unalloyed evils is, quite simply, ignorant. Everything involves tradeoffs. Sometimes the tradeoff is pretty clear. But sometimes, it isn't. For you to pretend like it's a simple or easy thing to make the tradeoff choice for everyone on planet earth makes me think you're an idiotic little tyrant, to be quite frank.
I don't see why - we've managed it fine and I've got a terrible memory. I've got a messanger bag and usually just keep a metal straw in it for whenever we want some.
A fair number of people carry around reusable coffee travel mugs and those are far more of a pain in terms of size and weight.
I'd clarify, I'm living in Canada so there might be some cultural differences here.
So you always have your messenger bag on you? Or you always know ahead of time that you're going to bubble tea and bring your messenger bag?
What do you do after you use it? Do you wash it after use or put it in your bag dirty to wash later? Not trying to argue but surprised people actually go through the trouble.
> A fair number of people carry around reusable coffee travel mugs
Yeah but that's usually in order to carry coffee they made at home. Not in case they decide to visit a coffee shop during the day.
I live in NYC and I'm not sure most people who are getting bubble tea knew they were going to get bubble tea when leaving their home.
I indeed always have my messenger bag[1] on me - after using it, assuming I'm not carrying the drink container home with me (or to someplace I can easily rinse it) I'll usually wrap it in a paper napkin - that's pretty rare though, usually by the time I can dispose of the drinking vessel I'm able to wash the straw out.
Reusable bubble tea straws are also small enough that they'll easily fit in most purses - the length might be a bit too much for clutches but if your purse is big enough for a phone chances are the bubble tea straw will fit just fine.
Yeah, I guess as someone who wouldn't always have a bag or purse on me the calculus is different (and for that matter, someone who would forget to wash the straw).
I think that's totally reasonable yea - reusable items aren't environmentally sane for infrequent purchases - if you drink coffee a few times a year it'd be silly to get a travel mug, similar to bubble tea straws. So, on the other hand, if the straw came with a 5cent disposal fee it probably wouldn't significantly impact your purchase.
That's a good idea, a very reasonable way of doing it.
Would be totally fine with an even higher(25cent) disposal fee. Makes no difference to the 4 times a year user, the frequent user gets a reusable straw.
A lot of Canadian grocery stores now have bag taxes - so a 5c fee for a bag to carry your groceries out in. A lot of people just swallow the cost, but it has led to a pretty dramatic increase in reusable bag adoption.
It's not in any way/shape/form more practical to carry more things with me when the alternative is that someone hands me a disposable version of the thing at time of purchase.
Not everyone carries a bag with them -- and even if every single person on earth had a bag it'd STILL be more inconvenient for those people to waste cargo space in the bag with a straw when the alternative of being given a disposable one at time of purchase is available.
I feel like there is a misunderstanding of the word 'impractical' here.
Carrying your own straws is a lot of things -- wise, prepared, ethically-conscious, whatever -- it won't ever be practical ( practical : of or concerned with the actual doing or use of something rather than with theory and ideas. ) until the much more convenient option of being given a disposable straw at purchase time and trashing it at the end of use is no longer available to choose.
- You'd have to know you are getting bubble tea before you leave your apartment (or always carry a metal straw)
- It's deeper than most pockets, and can poke and potentially hurt you when bending over, so you pretty much need a bag (or use a shorter straw that will get lost in your drink).
- You need to somehow clean and dry it after use, and put it back in your bag
The fact that all pre-1960 straws were paper does not imply that paper straws, let alone paper straws today, do not suck.