Sure. However the "lack of safety" perception is real too.
If a homeless person walks up to you and aggressively threatens you as you are passing by, no crime has occurred. But if you're an SF native, you've learned to shrug it off as a commonplace occurrence. You've learned to become thick skinned towards these incidences. And when a real crime has happened, you'd likely assign more gravitas to it.
This is why there is a disconnect between numbers and quoted statistics and how people feel.
>If a homeless person walks up to you and aggressively threatens you as you are passing by, no crime has occurred.
Depending on what they say, isn't that still technically "assault"? Or "disturbing the peace"?
Also, if there's poop all over the sidewalks, those are all crimes too.
The problem is that all these petty crimes are generally never reported, and certainly not acted upon by police. So they never show up in the crime statistics.
There's a disconnect between the numbers and quoted statistics and reality, because the statistics come from the police, and their reporting isn't accurate. It isn't accurate anywhere of course, because police aren't perfect and many crimes go unreported for various reasons, but to SF natives, it may seem that this is worse in SF than other places, or in SF in earlier times.
Yeah, that's exactly my point. Even if the worst violent crimes are down (murder etc.), if general incivility has gone way, way up, that usually doesn't show up in crime statistics.
According to the chart, the current homicide rate is about 7/100,000. I found a spreadsheet showing homicides going back to 1849. The rate between 1968 (happy birthday to me) and 1996 is significantly higher than now, bouncing around between 10 and 20. Between 1920 and 1967, it bounces around between a low of 2 (1938) and 9. The 1870s were another relatively high period.
Interestingly, San Francisco's population declined from 775,000 in 1950 to 679,000 in 1980.
Possibly an all-time low. It's hard to compare numbers >40 years old, because they very possibly are not measuring the same things.
As to ease when you "start extremely high" -- SF is now safer, when it comes to violent crime, than most major cities in the US. What it does have is an extremely high rate of quality of life crime.
Since the victim lived in Miami most recently, a lot of people writing about this case commented about crime statistics and it seemed to me that based on the data, Miami is a more dangerous place than San Francisco, with more murder, rape, assault, etc.
I think where to draw the line is this "undesirable place" business. That's highly subjective, judgemental, and can cause you to lose sight of a lot.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there: "undesirable place" can come from a lot of reasons. Sure, I think SF has become more undesirable due to the increase in visible homeless population (visibility most driven by the mentally ill and addicted, as well as the tent encampments), as well has rampant visible drug use.
But I think the belief/feelings that this translates to much worse crime is just not correct. I can sympathize and agree with the idea that homeless and drug problems makes SF less desirable, but I don't think it moves the needle that much on safety and crime.
It's interesting that you say that, because I had no knowledge of the relation to Miami (it's tough to tell what you meant by that comment).
The only reason I said this, is because I was there for Miami Music Week, and they had multiple shootings two years in a row. It also has a bit of a reputation from the "cocaine cowboys" years. Honestly, the city had a bit of a "feel" to it, but it also seemed to have a great amount of character.
I'm not really passing judgement myself. I live in a place that many people would call "undesirable", and it does hurt... it's also not really fair, because it's a beautiful city with rich culture heritage, and continuing culture.
However, we have lots of shootings here too, and I understand why people are a little apprehensive.
I'm sure it has nice spots and you can make a good life for yourself. However, I can assure you that historically, it's exactly that (though maybe not undesirable)
It's all about whatever world view or narrative makes us feel emotionally comfy these days. Calling Detroit, Baltimore and Miami war zones makes a lot of people out there feel emotionally comfortable. (And also illustrates how many of us are, fortunately, completely unfamiliar with actual war zones.)
I wouldn't put too much weight in those kinds of comments.
I get where you're coming from. However, my opinion was based on physically being there back to back years when there were multiple shootings in public places (though not at the actual shootings). That and the fact that it was extremely violent in the 80s.
I never thought the issue was violent crime. More like the constant low-level theft and public urination from the homeless, drug addicts, and mentally ill.
Maybe Bayview / Hunter’s Point / Sunnydale. But SF has never been a dangerous place. Not like Oakland or Richmond. Crime was much higher everywhere in the 80s and 90s.
you might be thinking of the pervasive non-violent crimes like people doing drugs in the bustling business and shopping districts and shitting right on the sidewalk in the same. it's long been infamous for that.
11.23 per 100K. Tusla has a higher murder rate. You're about as likely to die in an automobile crash nation wide (11.1 per 100K), and in Florida, more likely (15.4 per 100K).
IMO miami is a highly class segregated area. You really don't see the working class areas while there visiting or on vacation unless you go out of your way to see them.
Because I recently visited and two people were murdered in quick succession during spring break. They shut down Miami beach last year, due to back to back days of people shooting into crowds. In general, it just seemed wild and crazy.
I really don't understand what you're talking about.
I was nearly shot by a gang in Miami for parking in front of the wrong house with a white panel van with tinted windows. Never had such an experience in any other US city. I managed to get away after a five minute high speed chase on city streets. Cops were nowhere in sight at any point and time was of the essence so calling 911 was not an option.
