Right, but I was addressing the post I was responding to, not this stuff. All I needed to do for that was to demonstrate that building software products remotely with pretty damn good efficiency and effectiveness isn't actually all that hard, and I think the examples (what do you want, a law of physics?) are abundant enough to prove that pretty decisively.

In an office probably works fine too, sure, but I don't think remote needs to prove anything, in the software world. It's proven. It's very proven. Managers that can't do better than some developers self-organizing online, with the same or better tools and a budget, must be pretty bad at what they do. I'm not making the point that some of them evidently find that incredibly difficult and even impossible, they are, which seems to me like telling on themselves. Guess they're bad at their job, should let a developer do it. It's pretty clearly not rocket science or something that requires some kind of expert, since it keeps being done over and over by people who aren't professional managers. Seems to just require someone halfway competent.

Nobody has to prove anything, that's my entire point. Both stances are valid and it's a company's leadership's decision how to handle their employees and how to structure their operations.

So if a company says, "we prefer a hybrid work model", then shouting out "but look fully remote projects can work as is evidenced by all these successful ones" simply doesn't matter.

My comment (that you were responding to) was explaining that apparently there are leaders who have seen a difference in product quality, velocity, collaboration, team morale, what have you, between fully remote and pre-covid in-office work styles. Presumably they believe that bringing people together is best for their company/product/team. You simply can't argue with that, at least not generally, since it's a valid viewpoint.

Rhetorically the existence of anecdotes to the contrary does not invalidate an argument/position/viewpoint.