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> where in nature does one observe these weird things?

That's like asking "where in nature does one observe numbers"?

Literally everywhere.

Your jug partitions water into the set inside the jug and the set outside it.

Caves are a subset of rock formations.




All that partitioning and counting can only be performed by a system that is able to abstract and differentiate between different abstractions. Brains and computers appear to be good at this, but other than that, I don't see many other structures that are capable of doing this.

So, no, I don't observe numbers in the universe, if I take on the perspective of, say, a rock.


Um what?

Are you saying you want something that can be logically reasoned by a rock?


It's obviously not logical, and possibly not even reasonable, but it seems like a viable way to get out of the frame of reference from a human being.

I'm fine if this way of thinking is discarded as nonsense. I'd be happy to find more constructive ways to continue with this.




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