Some members of _your faith_ perpetrated a scam, and you're trying to deny their membership in your group. Sure you can make up whatever reason you want to do that. That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument. Just make some shit up.

> Some members of _your faith_ (...)

It's not my faith. Also, televangelists aren't christian either. Again, those who fail to follow the basic tenets of a religion cannot claim to be followers of said religion.

> That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument.

Either you haven't got the point or you're just trying to be contrarian. I think the point I made is clear and easy to understand. I won't repeat myself.

> those who fail to follow the basic tenets of a religion cannot claim to be followers of said religion

I don't know what you are referring to as the "basic" tenets of a religion. The majority of muslim men in western societies drink alcohol even though it is strictly forbidden in the Quran, and yet those men are considered to be "muslim" regardless.

You can find various infractions for any follower of any religion and then subsequently argue that this person isn't following the "basic tenets" of that religion and therefore is not a member of that group. That's the "no true scottsman" argument that you can make to rhetorically "remove" "undesirable" members from the group and thus make the group look better. It has nothing to do with reality.

Televangelists are very obviously, very clearly, Christian. They don't follow all of the teachings of the Bible, just like no other Christian follows all of the teachings of the Bible. Not sure who gave you the authority to dictate what their religious identity is.

I don't know enough to comment on the specifics of your thread with the other poster, but I thought I would offer a suggestion for "Core Tenents".

Though there are many instructions in scripture that many christians ignore or fail to live up to, there are a set of core beliefs that comprise the essential nature of the Christian faith. The Apostles Creed summarizes most of them for Christianity.

As an example, if you deny the deity of Jesus, then you can not reasonably claim to be a christian. This is the case with Mormon's, who are sometimes called Christians, but whose theology differs in significant ways from Christianity.

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There is also another way to approach the idea of "that person isn't really a christian". Though it is in fact, impossible for a human to judge definitively, Jesus does say that "you shall know them by their love one for another" (John 13:35). And the bible does teach that under certain circumstances, the Church is to treat someone claiming to be christian as though they are not, because they refuse to acknowledge and/or address behaviors that are instructed in scripture.

The Church isn't generally good at that, which may be the point of the OP. But, it does allow the Church to say that someone who unrepentantly practices sinful behavior doesn't represent Christianity.

> But, it does allow the Church to say that someone who unrepentantly practices sinful behavior doesn't represent Christianity.

And this right here allows you to take any Christian, point to something sinful that they appear to be doing, and claim that they're not really Christian.

Hm... but in my example, in order for the Church to do that, they would have to formally excommunicate that individual. That isn't something done often, and doesn't really support what you seem to be saying it does (unless I misunderstand you).

The Church doesn't get to just point at a person who commits a sin and say that person isn't a Christian. There is a formal process for evaluating if that individual meets certain criteria (laid out in scripture). Its not done without serious consideration.

And there is a significant difference between saying that a person "isn't a Christian" and saying that some practice by a christian "doesn't represent Christianity".

For a practice to be considered "Christian" it should resemble the established and agreed upon tenets of the Christian faith, as laid out in the Bible and generally agreed upon by the Church at large.

Its like, I can claim to be a lawyer, but to actually be one, I need to pass the Bar. And a lawyer can be disbarred, if their actions show them to unable to execute the duties of a lawyer in accordance with the standards set by the state they practice in.

Similarly, a licensed Lawyer can claim something is lawful, but that be false when compared to the actual written code of that state. Someone can then come along and say that the advice and practice of that Lawyer does represent the actual law of that state.

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Look, I get it. Its frustrating to see christians do bad things, and for the church to not take responsibility when it should. And I'm not defending that. It is also frustrating for the Church when people do not represent it fairly. This is a common issue with any organized group of people, because People aren't always reliable. A fact the Bible has much to say about.