Most laptops are bad intentionally. Less effort, more profit, and replaced sooner.

But that's not to say good non-mac laptops dont exist, nor that mac laptops are the best. I currently have an m1 mbp and an asus zephyrus g14 They're the same size and weight, but

+ the macbook has longer battery life, though this varies. sometimes they are equal at 5 hours, and they both can go to 10, but it is easier for the mac.

+ the macbook has a webcam, but also a minus, because i prefer to unplug an external one when not in use, and there are really great portable external ones that have gyros to follow you around.

- the macbook's display is worse, because of apple's insistence on these terrible glossy finishes

- needlessly sharp edges. this could be user error, but if they didnt design it that way it wouldnt be.

- I/O? the thing does not have usb A ports. now I need adapters and hubs.

- no nvidia graphics card. part of the worse battery life of the g14 is controlling when that graphics card is in use, but at least it has it, so that i can do certain creative & ai workloads.

- keyboard is just worse. and that's before getting into that macos has forced the keyboard to be worse by having 'option' and 'command' keys to be an obstacle for anyone who uses every other OS that isn't macos. With enough key interception and remapping I got it to act like linux but the keys are still named wrong

macbook like touchpads is what amazed me most, Apple showed their great touchpads around 2006 with the Macbooks (not pro), and to this date no one seems to be able to clone them and deliver the same quality and smoothness.

Sure they do. The 2013 Chromebook Pixel for one.

But yes, it's hit or miss. My Dell M6800 'portable workstation' has an abysmal touchpad (really, what were they thinking?), but then, since it is way too heavy to actually reside on the lap, I use a mouse (which in any case is more precise) there. So the proper question is then, why did they bother with one at all?

Otoh, the cheap lenovo ThinkPad 11e has a surprisingly good one.

I've seen some close ones on higher end chromebooks. The Razor laptops are also close. The clicking motion is a bit off/different on many, but there are some that are very close generally speaking. I get what you mean. Currently using an M1 air for personal laptop, work issued is an M3 pro. My next personal laptop will likely be a Framework AMD 13" running PopOS.

Does any other manufacturer produce their own? I think the major issue is that other companies are integrators of cheapest bids for components, not computer companies.

Apple isn't producing all of the components in their laptops either.

It's a bigger picture thing. Apple has some vision for what a good laptop is like, and has been iterating for decades to achieve that. Each new generation brings some amount of change (including some real failures like the Touch Bar and butterfly keyboard).

Absolutely any other manufacturer could achieve that if they were willing to focus on it, iterate, and not give up. It would take some time, but it would happen.

Not all, but many and especially these where existing parts can't match the UX. Lenovo or Dell doesn't care, they just buy from the lowest bidder.

Get a Framework AMD laptop and install PopOS... tada, Mac aesthetics (mostly) under Linux with good hardware upgradability.

I own a Framework :)

The build quality is pretty good - particularly given I can tear it apart. The speakers are okay. The webcam and microphone are poor. The battery life is acceptable, but I trust that's at least in part Linux' fault. The fans ramp up more often than I'd like... it's certainly good for a Windows laptop, and I like the ethos, but it's not at all MacBook territory.

For context, the last MacBook I owned was a 2017 model, the one with the awful keyboard. Ironic, I know.

I understand why people like the Framework laptop, but this is like comparing the space shuttle to the pickup truck Lamont used to drive in Sanford and Sons. It doesn't compare favorably to a Macbook.

Having used Macbook laptops for a couple decades, and Linux as my primary desktop for a few years (off and on for decades before that), I'm not sure your comparison holds up all that well at all.

Most of the tools I use in Mac are cross platform and otherwise available in Linux. Many aren't completely UI/UX integrated even (VS Code, Brave Browser, etc). Many others are command line tools that are the same or easier with Linux.

What is it that you think a Macbook has that would be effectively lacking?

> What is it that you think a Macbook has that would be effectively lacking?

I bought a Framework laptop and a Macbook Air M2 at roughly the same time a couple of years ago. The difference in hardware quality is night and day. I think even if I used free cross platform software tools like the ones you mention, that would matter a lot to me.

It was an experience that taught me how little repairability means to me at this stage in life, which I guess is a little sad...

A non plasticky chassis, great touchpad and generally much better build quality and hardware (compared to the Framework) as long as you don't care about upgradeability and modularity it's on a whole other level.

Unfortunately, and as much as I wish this wasn't true, it's not even close...

Sure, macbooks look good, but it's not the looks that make them great laptops.

I am not sure what people do with their laptops but I am perfectly happy with a refurbished 5th gen X1, replacement for my t480s, that replaced my t440, after t420s.

I never paid more than $500 for a refurbished model. I can choose which kind of screen I am going for never had any heating issues or driver issues with Linux.

I've had a MacBook at work, I could afford a framework or whatever when I wanted. But except gaming (don't care and better devices available) and AI/rendering (cloud cheaper in most cases) I don't see why the majority of people seems to think they need $2000 machines.

Why even bother with working on a laptop and not just get a proper desktop workstation PC?

It's just not a good fit for my lap.

That's what desks are for..

Seriously though, how much do you move with your development computer? I can't imagine being productive without at least two large screens and a fullsize keyboard and trackball anyways..

I have a similar setup to yours, but end up working (for my job, or for personal enjoyment) more than half the time on a single 14" screen, wherever (kitchen table, my couch, someone else's couch, outside, ...).

For some kind of work, I find the extra screen space very useful, but for other tasks it ends up being distracting.

Having a light, quiet laptop that keeps itself cool and has a long battery life is what makes it possible.

And when it's not enough, I can plug a single usb-c cable and have it charging, and connected to a keyboard, mouse, two screens, gigabit ethernet and speakers/headphones.

In my case, I have to carry it to the office and back home. I also often use it outside.