Oh yeah for sure. Other herpes link: It can be even worse if you somehow get it in your nose, where it could be a causal factor in "learning and behavioral deficiencies and violence in children and adults", as well as other risks from other forms of herpes like HHV-6 via that route, nice and close to the brain, and also possibly linked to the development of multiple sclerosis. [1][2] It's worth noting to those that don't know that this virus lies dormant in your spinal cord and can eventually travel to the brain, causing encephalitis and as the research has actually been saying for some time now is probably also linked to alzheimers, and there's also an increased incidence of alzheimers between spouses [3]. Lots of indications that we should probably figure out a way to stamp these viruses out if we're to totally be past these extremely debilitating and life ending conditions as a species.
The current best effort at curing HSV by way of gene-editing out the latent virus from infected cells is being conducted by the Fred Hutch center. You can donate to their research here:
Most of the population carries one herpesvirus or another, and those damn things integrate into our nervous system as nuclear plasmids for life. We really should accelerate this line of research.
The herpesvirus family could be causing ADHD, Alzheimer's, MS, and a whole host of other brain diseases. Perhaps even a general cognitive decline in the population.
So I'm fucked in three ways here. I get cold sores, sometimes in my nose, and as an adolescent playing Aussie rules football I was concussed seven times in two years and once more about fifteen years later (when I took the brutal sport up again for some reason).
There are some "checks in the mail" that could arrive at any time that, if I was the sort of person to worry about the future, would make me worry about the future. But I don't tend to worry, but maybe that's a symptom... I am known to have an incredibly patchy memory; some things stick in great detail, but other things are entirely lost immediately.
As an aside, sun exposure tends to bring on a cold sore 'episode'. Plenty of sunscreen and more specifically lip balm helps prevent it from occurring. But during an Australian summer that requires dedication I haven't quite mastered.
I grew up playing American football and I am pretty well versed on the literature.
I live for now and don't put a lot of stock in having a great life after 65.
In American football, much depends on the position you played. I am not sure how that is for Aussie rules but lineman and linebackers who would be involved in more hits have it worse than wide receivers and cornerbacks. That never seems to be reported with CTE.
The concussion count is mostly non-sense from my understanding. I think this is how the NFL has shaped the narrative to not be so bad and their bogus "concussion protocol". The subconcussive hits are the major problem and that is just part of football. I took at least a thousand of them smashing heads together.
It is also degenerative over time. You aren't going to just wake up one day with problems. If it is really bad you are going to have crazy behavior problems. Like Aaron Hernandez. I am sure OJ Simpson had bad CTE.
I just doubt cold sores are that big of a variable compared to being hit in the head thousands of times.
My memory completely sucks but that has just made me an incredibly good note taker for job related functions.
I don't understand how that aren't weight classes in football. I was a 185lb center going up against 300lb nose guards in high school and everyone thought that was ok.
I used to get oral cold sores pretty regularly which made dating a drag. It really sucked to be hitting it off with someone and be unable to kiss due to a breakout. I got a prescription for valacyclovir 500mg twice a day and now I never get cold sores. I kiss a lot of people now it’s really nice!
Want to second the antiviral. I have a much lower prescription (200mg once a day of the older generic Acyclovir), but I've been using it prophylactically for over twenty years. Each new GP responds with horror, but it reduces my outbreaks from once or twice a month to perhaps three times a year (stress dependent). Given the fact that the more outbreaks you have, the more you will have - everyone with HSV-1 should be on this or similar medication.
Correction - everyone with HSV-1 outbreaks could in my opinion benefit from prophylactic antivirals.
It's worth noting that HSV-1 seroprevalence is extremely heterogeneous. Many nations have rates over 90%, which some Northern European nations have rates of 40% - suggesting broad immunity or reduced transmission. Although this could also be a function of different amounts of research and testing.
Lysine supplements may be something to look into for cold sores. Got a friend who is from SA who doses up on it before and during summer months and she swears by it.
Get in on a research study or good doctor who can read the research already done. Don't take too much stock in medical stuff from some rando on hackernews but definitely ask your medical practitioner about these things.
So it's APOE-4 + HSV-1 + subsequent head trauma in a model? Interesting, but not particularly shocking - there have been associations with all three of those independently, no?
I'm still waiting for the research community to let the amyloid theory die its long-deserved death and start focusing on tau; hopefully it will restore some momentum towards clinical treatments/prevention.
I was infected with HSV-1 as an early child (toddler age), and I've suspected it has played a role in ADHD development as well. Not to mention varicella.
> start focusing on tau
The tau hypothesis has been a thing for a long time as well. I wish we'd stop focusing on molecular indications altogether and look at the plausible etiological agents as mechanisms.
The herpesvirus family, certain gut microbiota, blood-brain barrier breaches, immune cell activity, and insulin dysfunction are all incredibly plausible mechanisms that might all somehow contribute or lead to the disease.
So, I've had this hunch since the very first studies pointing towards the herpes/Alzheimer's link and doubled down on it after the discovery of the "glymphatic fluid" system for essentially washing the brain during sleep. And it's impacted a lot of my social decisions to an almost unhealthy extent, but it's validating to see the research and possible payoff.
My hunch has always been: brain cleans itself. So long as brain cleans itself, infections like herpes and some of the bacteria involved in gingivitis can't trigger the amyloid domino effect that could cause Alzheimer's. But once that cleaning mechanism fails (head trauma), the body can't clean the detritus from the brain fighting the infection anymore. Apoe4's association with boosted hsv outbreaks factored in as well.
I'm oversimplifying it and am probably taking wild stabs in the dark, but I'm hoping the avoidance of high risk behaviors ends up paying off.
But the next question is whether this is all for nothing — if VZV (chickenpox/shingles) ends up having a similar effect... we're already giving our kids weakened VZV vaccines anyway. Seems like the longer term solutions will be:
1) vaccines to prevent hsv/vzv/hhv etc, but they'd end up being love and thus pose a similar but lessened risk
2) ensuring a way to excise the viral DNA from any of these
3) finding a means to rebuild the glymphatic membrane after trauma.
---
My comment is a lot of wild pontification. Any MDs wanna provide a sanity check on anything I said?
I'm just wondering how we can stimulate the glymphatic waste clearing system. Like if it is CSF flowing into the brain that removes waste products what can we do to promote that.
I have found that sleeping on the left side and meditation like yoga nidra maybe possible.
But I'm really looking for something like TCDS or a specific exercise or supplement.
Herpes has evolved alongside Homo sapiens for millions of years. It's extremely impressively adapted to the human immune system. In fact it can even boost the immune system (maybe in its evolutionary history it found that amping its hosts immune system helped it have less competitors?). In mice it can provide resistance to the bubonic plague
We have ways to test for latent HSV (antibodies, not viral load), which prevalence estimates are informed by. And yeah, anyone who doesn’t have a virus doesn’t have it “yet” in a trivial sense, but no, to echo the parent comment’s point: not everyone gets an HSV infection, even over their lifetime, and the proportion that don’t is non-negligible.
And not everyone has bacteria that causes cavities or gingivitis. Seems once you get it, it's difficult to get rid of. I was trying to explain this to my mom (grandma) when she was sharing spoons with our little one, and she was all defensive, like I'm squeamish and it's not a big problem, the kid needs to strengthen her immune system and she's already putting stuff in her mouth, so she will pick it up anyway. It's that boomer/hippie generation that doesn't understand why washing hands was important during covid.
Science sides with your mom. Your immune health has much more to do with which bacteria survive in which proportions than with your fear of exposure, because it's incredibly unlikely that you've never been exposed to those species. You were probably born with them and so was baby. If your saliva is well formulated, they are in a healthy balance and you're fine. If not, you might have some bad genes because you're not making good saliva. Floss and brush, and get regular cleanings.
I don't think that's how it spreads though. It's not a specific bacteria. Many species are linked to cavities and gingivitis including Streptococcus, Fusobacterium, Actinomyces, Veillonella, and more. Everyone of us already has these bacteria. The difference isn't so much the specific strains but the specific ecosystem in your mouth
Almost every one of us already has Candida albicans but we don't all get yeast infections. Almost everyone of us already has Cutibacterium acnes but we don't all get pimples. Almost everyone of us already has Streptococcus pyogenes but we don't all constantly have strep throat.
All three of those examples are examples of species that we all normally have and even play beneficial roles for our health (Streptococcus plays important roles in digestion, Cutibacterium can actually improve your skin health and protect your skin moisture barrier, and idk about Candida but I bet it has some benefits too lol). But when the natural ecology is disrupted they can grow out of control. E.g. yeast infections and strep throat are both significantly more common after taking antibiotics which can kill off other beneficial microorganisms that are often necessary to keep those "opportunistically pathogenic" microbes in check
I'm willing to bet it's the same story for bacteria that causes cavities or gingivitis. It's not a specific strain that you should be worried about but a pattern/ecology that you should be worried about. That's much harder to "spread" and has a lot more to do with factors like your daily habits, diet, and even genetics
Neonates are uniquely susceptible to HSV and it can cause permanent catastrophic brain damage and death. Sharing saliva in any baby under 6 months is a terrible idea. It tends not to make the news, but if you search for "herpes" and "bris" from religious individuals putting their mouth on the genitals of children, then you will find plenty of examples. But it's the same reason you shouldn't let people kiss your child: any cold sores (or asymptomatic shedding) can be fatal to your child.
Stay strong with your mom. She is lucky that she's unaware of the risk, but the risk is there.
I'm 37 and the only time I ever had a cavity, it was a small one when I was 29. I experienced intense pain and then numbness in my face as the plane I was on was landing. My mouth felt normal like 20 minutes after landing. I suspected a cavity, did some googling, went to a dentist and got it filled. That was the first time I had been to a dentist in over 5 years. I figured I should use my dental insurance and start going in for cleanings regularly. So I did that for a bit, then covid happened. I haven't been to a dentist since 2019 and my teeth seem fine. I usually brush twice a day, but sometimes I fall asleep on the couch and miss brushing. Sometimes I'll go a month without flossing, but usually floss every other day. I have some dental picks I use regularly. Orbit gum is chewed pretty often. But yeah I think it's gotta be genetic or something.
As someone who gets a wicked cold sore every year I always hate hearing about stuff like this. It's terrifying what can happen to babies if you kiss them with HSV-1.
Some people have it, but some people have it worse. Some people get it and build an immune response quickly, limiting the spread it seems. Others don't and the virus seems to take a stronger foothold.
My wife has oral HSV. I don't. We're not careful and we've been together for years with many breakouts. I don't think I've avoided it because I'm magically immune. My guess is that I have it, but I managed to limit it to the degree that I never get a breakout.
Now that I think about it, my wife hasn't had a breakout in two years, pretty much since getting pregnant. Weird.
I suspect there is a degree of ‘magical immunity’ present for the people who don’t test positive for it.
I know I’ve been exposed countless times from similar experiences, and have always (100% of the time, n==10ish by now) tested negative for it.
Is that so weird? With how prevalent it is, I don’t see how it’s actually possible for <100% of people to not have it otherwise. Unless some large percentage of people are literally living in a bubble, anyway.
Pregnancy boosts the immune system, so that may be it. Btw, the amino acid L-Lysine may also help. Many people report positive results on regular intake and one of them is me.
During pregnancy the mothers immune system is muted, which prevents "rejection" of the fetus.
However, in an almost "parting gift" fashion, the departing fetus actually leaves behind immune cells that can provide years of boosted immune activity.
I Googled "redhead herpes" and the first result was for "Virucidal activity of ginger essential oil against caprine alphaherpesvirus-1". I found that a weirdly funny bahaviour of the Google search natural language parser
I find it an extremely annoying behaviour, and it seems to be implemented in such a simplistic way. If one searches for "redhead" then it's likely one also wants results for "ginger", but not all such results, only the one where "ginger" has the same meaning!
we definitely need a way to consider multi variable ailments better
our entire scientific institution and method just tests for one thing, says nope, and dismisses any more complex thought on the subject. unless you do it yourself, which is a very high bar to accomplish
What would a multi variable model look like where, say, both herpes and plaques contributed to Alzheimer, but you couldn't find proper correlation with either taken individually?
There are plenty of diseases where we have identified multiple risk factors successfully. We have examples of diseases where either risk factor alone is often causative (e.g. pulmonary cancer can be caused by smoking, or by long term asbestos exposure, and if exposed to both, fixing just one won't make the risk very low; and there are of course many other substances that can cause this). And we have also identified diseases where you need two (or sometimes more) separate factors to trigger it (e.g. shingles is a diseases that is triggered in individuals that previously had chickenpox, but generally only if their immune system is weakened by something else, typically old age).
Some evidence suggests that some viral infections such as Herpes simplex virus 1 (HSV-1) may be associated with dementia, but there are conflicting results and the association with Alzheimer's is unclear as of 2024.[95][96][97]
It will bear out in studies when they start to see whatever results come from giving head injury patients and other at risk groups antivirals to hopefully measurably prevent these conditions from arising
The study in Wales and a second study in the US were about herpes zoster (shingles), they both seem to support a link to Alzheimer's and, from what I read, the second study mentions other dementias.
> the latest work addresses one of the biggest criticisms of the microbial theory of Alzheimer’s: HSV-1’s ubiquity. Alzheimer’s impacts only about 10% of the population — if HSV-1 were causing it, why are there so many people who are repositories of the virus but not developing the disease?
That's the rub. Even if this non-traditional brain model is to be taken at face value, there is a missing variable somewhere, arguably more important; HSV-1, at best, would be a contributing factor.
I know right. If polio causes paralysis then why do only 0.5% of people who contract polio become paralyzed? Checkmate.
That is mixing up necessary versus sufficient. If all people who develop Alzheimer’s contracted HSV-1 prior to developing Alzheimer’s and all people who did not contract HSV-1 do not develop Alzheimer’s (technically implied by my first statement), then you can make a good case for causality. Obviously you can do better, but that is a good start.
> That's the rub. Even if this non-traditional brain model is to be taken at face value, there is a missing variable somewhere, arguably more important; HSV-1, at best, would be a contributing factor.
Did you completely miss the point of the article and even of the quote you copied. "the latest work addresses [this very criticism you have]"?
The article tells us what the missing link is (according to their hypothesis). That's the whole point of it. It's even in the title.
> Research suggests concussions could awaken latent infections in the brain and lead to dementia
That'd be the suggested missing link, physical impact disturbing dormant virions in the brain or allowing a temporary passage to a part of the brain they're normally unable to reach.
There was a study published in 2022 suggesting that there's a link between Epstein-Barr and Multiple Sclerosis (where the immune system attacks the neuron insulation layer), and that when you get infected affects the outcome. Cleverly, they used blood samples from US service members, who have to do it multiple times in life.
Makes me wonder if this or other viruses might have a role in the inflammation cascades that sometimes kill people after relatively minor head trauma.
I mean there are literally cases like Gabrielle Giffords where people have a penetrating bullet injury and live (not without damage, but they live), and others where a seemingly minor bump spirals to become fatal damage over the space of a few days to a week.
Out of two people with chronic outbreaks of Herpes who I have taught to counter the adagio of any stress and equip the rest of the mind against unhealthy stress in general ( recurringly; I haven't found a way to hard-code such a root in adult minds ), only one applies my teaching and is affected 20+ times less by Herpes than before and per year in comparison to the other person. One is also a lot more consistent regarding his diet and eliminated any "impure" saucage like Salami, Mortadella et al as well as most cheeze.
In our family and their social circles, Alzheimers and Dementia are quite prevalent, but absent in any siblings who ate and drank (liquor) "more expensive" and less "impure" ( impurities introduced in all the steps of agri-/horticulture and (ultra-/processing) ).
Some stuck to the epithany that "this is not real meat" and "this is not real milk" when they arrived from the East, others didn't. Some noticed the effects of concentrates vs whole ingredients and others didn't.
IMO, focus on what happens to the nerves in body rather than brain when they are affected by anything "artificial" or "impure". Alzheimers , Dementia, Herpes and so on are the end of a long line of "stuff that happens".
[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8560783/
[2] https://www.livescience.com/15453-nose-gateway-virus-brain-d...
[3] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2945313/