Europe may have to build their own alliance. Maybe NATO will be gone as we voted for it.
Having said that, Europe alliance is no joke. They also have nuclear...
Article 5 was only used once, and it was after Sep 11. Almost all NATO nations had soldiers dying along the US and it's proxy wars. What is happening is treason pure and simple...
I dont understand the downvotes. Treason is the wrong word though but this is a nitpick. The U.S. has betrayed NATO and it is the end of NATO. The Pax Americana is over.
As I said, in American English I’ve never heard the term treason used for anything other than bettayal of one’s own country. You appear obsessed with this. Your usage of treason appears to be correct but to me it sounds weird. I’m a native speaker of American English. You were downvoted and I suspect some of those downvotes came from using “treason” as it may have sounded hyperbolic.
I feel this is a great misrepresentation. The European countries have not been keeping their end of the agreement, by their lax spending. Yet this gets completely forgotten and all blame is placed on America. If you have "allies" who aren't doing the things they agreed to why is it treasonous of the US to no longer be associated to those parties. They showed through their own actions how they view their commitment to NATO. No non European nation in the history of ever has done more for the safety and prosperity of Europe then America. It seems that they feel entitled to our support instead of thankful.
… doing the things they agreed to why.. through their own actions how they view their commitment to NATO…
Their soldiers shed blood during our very long occupation in Afghanistan as part of their treaty obligations. They have been negligent in the 2% gpd spending target. This is hardly a good reason for us to discard the alliance and our relationship with our allies. We’ve threatened to annex Canada and Greenland. It’s not a winning strategy to threaten your allies.
If Putin had an FSB agent as President would that person materially have done anything different than Trump has done these past 4 weeks? We are being led by traitors.
No non European nation in the history of ever has done more for the safety and prosperity of Europe then America.
And we have benefited greatly by doing this. It wasn’t pure altrusim on our part.
To add to your point, about a third of all forces in Afghanistan were non-American, and about a third of combat losses were as well. Thousands of Americans have their fathers and sons and brothers around only because someone from an allied nation took that unfortunate patrol into an ambush or made that unlucky step on a landmine instead of them.
I was using the legal definition of the term as it pertains to U.S. law. It is a betrayal for sure. In American English I’ve never heard someone use the term to refer to anything other than a betrayal of one’s own country.
Exactly. I don't get all this talk about how Europe is an open air museum etc.
We've got a lot of problems, lack of leadership is definitely one of them, we struggle with natural ressources (mostly due to our very restrictive laws).
But reading US press, one could think it's a small, struggling group of countries, sliding into insignificance. This is mostly based on somewhat false narratives, and stock market capitalizations, which are currently at historical bubble levels in the US.
While in reality, Europe is an economic powerhouse, very strong in a lot of important industries (guess what company has a de-facto worldwide monopoly on machines used to make computer chips ?), has an excellent education system and fairly stable institutions.
We just need an electrochoc. Trump / Vance may just have delivered this much. They may be surprised by what's coming next though.
No one really knows for sure, but it would not surprise me if Trump is playing his Trump games, attempting to convince the rest of the world that there is a threat so they build up their forces and hold up their end of the deal. With Europe, that's pretty easy because Putin is a present threat. How do you light a fire under Canada, though? You convince them that their enemy is right next door. Trump is convinced that they're all a little too comfortable, and things will not change until they feel some fear. If I had to place a bet on this situation, that's what I would wager is going on.
Keeping in mind that HN is the land of “temporarily embarrassed billionaires”, I’ve attempted almost as a gesture of hope, to analyze as objectively as possible whether your claim might hold true, namely that Trump could genuinely grasp something as nuanced as “chess”. However, that hopeful notion quickly falters when we recall he once nominated Matt Gaetz for Attorney General.
"..Donald Trump has made tens of thousands of false or misleading claims, including during his first and second terms as President of the United States. Fact-checkers at The Washington Post documented 30,573 false or misleading claims during his first presidential term, an average of 21 per day.The Toronto Star tallied 5,276 false claims from January 2017 to June 2019, an average of six per day..."
Europe should play hard ball and threaten to kick out US bases. That’ll either call Trumps bluff or otherwise make the US military very unhappy with him.
European Democracies should start a, new, NATO-like military Alliance on their own, but without Trump's America.
(and without the notorious US-made military equipment kill-switches)
And while we're at it, this time will be different: Instead of the membership criteria being anti-communism, it should be effective Liberal Democracy. So, to be part,
1. Compulsory ICC membership - hence no exceptionalistic US, and no exceptionalistic Israel.
2. No "Illiberal Democracies": say, for example, composite of a minimum 0.67 score on the WJP Rule of Law Index and others: therefore no Orbanic Hungary, and no illiberal others like it. Poland, Slovakia, Italy: you better watch your ways if you want in.
3. Democratic backsliding removes you rights in the Alliance, and, can proportionally lead to outright expulsion.
Not one more new military equipment purchase from the US, (or other non-qualifying nations). Member nations should use their - substantial - industrial capacity to equip themselves with indigenous military materiel.
Hey, it would be actually great for their economy!
Initially European scope, but bridges to a broader global scope (or even a secondary sister-Alliance) with open-ended partnerships with Canada, Australia, New Zeland, Japan, South Korea, and yes: Taiwan.
US and/or Israel want to join, if a more Democratic future selves? Simple: fully join the ICC, and meet the Alliance's full criteria as every other member.
I think more a temporary suspension while Trump is in control. Apparently most US politicians of both parties are pretty horrified but the Trump/Musk/Vance lot seem to not be in line with the ideals of NATO and leaning a little fascist.
