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Which leads to the theory of why the USS Constitution was so superior to British ships.

The Americans drilled daily with live cannon, while the British drilled less often, and without live fire (presumably to conserve powder and balls).

As an unsurprising result, American crews were more experienced at reloading under the duress of cannonade. The sound on the gun decks was so great it would burst eardrums. The smoke made it too hard to see anything a few feet from the portals.

If you've never been near a gunpowder cannon fire, it's hard to comprehend the surreal rupture of reality it causes in your perception. I was to the side, but in front, of one. My world went black, then lightening values of gray. Sound returned. Then people appeared in the fog, moving with their arms out trying to get away blindly from the threat they perceived (that was already over).

Without proper training, new sailors will stumble badly in their first firefight, and each man on the gundeck is crucial to a team. The officers were outside the deck, so they could receive orders. If you can't load your cannon while blind and deaf, your cannon sits quiet a long time.




This may have been a contributing factor, but the reason the American frigates were successful in the War of 1812 was because they were significantly larger and more powerful ships, with more powerful cannons. They had material advantages in size (100% heavier), crew (50% more numerous), and firepower (30-50% more weight of shot). The crews were well trained (and included many former British navy able seamen, pressed from American merchantmen) but it was the material advantages that swayed these combats.

It was curious how effectively the American naval establishment gamed the European 'honor' system of naval warfare - they knew that if they kept these warships technically rated as 'frigates' (even though they were the largest and most powerful frigates ever built, similar in size to smaller ships of the line), the British would still try to fight them one on one with their frigates.


Also the oak used in the construction was much better.


Yes, it was old growth southern live oak, which is harder and denser than the oak the British used in their warships. Hence the Constitution's apt nickname of "Old Ironsides".


I was surprised, because of your user name, that you have made comments not directly referring to timber.


>”comments not directly referring to timber.”

Sometimes it is good to go against the grain.


The USS Constitution and her sister ships were “super frigates” armed with ~50 guns of 24lb cannons and 36lb carronades. Most British frigates they went up against had fewer guns and used 18 lb cannons. The USS Constitution also had thicker hulls.

The British had to start using cut down ships of the line against them.

In WW2 terms, they were battle cruisers taking on heavy and light cruisers.

The battle cruiser example is especially apt because a 24lb cannon could pierce any ship of the line’s hull.


When I visited Oslo we went to Akershus festning, where we heard this enormous blast that sounded like a bomb going off, it really startled us as we weren't expecting it. After recovering, we realized they were firing off some cannons there, I don't know if it's a regular thing or not. I was expecting some massive cannon based on the blast, but it really didn't seem all that large. I can't even imagine what it must have been like on the gun deck of a large warship with 30 or more cannons.


My first time hearing 5.56 fire when I incidentally had ear pro off was shocking. Cannot imagine what a gun deck was like in the age of sail.


Gunfire is insanely loud. Even a little .22 is louder than the apparent volume of heavier rounds in most film and TV. It's one of those things people can have entirely the wrong idea about if their only exposure to it is media. You see things like people firing rifles from inside a car and it's like... nobody in that car should be able to hear a damn thing for a full minute, and with repeated fire their ears might ring badly through the next day.

Archer kinda gets this more-right than most things, LOL. "MAWP! MAWP!"


> Gunfire is insanely loud. Even a little .22 is louder than the apparent volume of heavier rounds in most film and TV. It's one of those things people can have entirely the wrong idea about if their only exposure to it is media.

Part of that is because the sound volume is just so drastically different compared to normally talking; microphones have trouble with it, audio amplifiers end up clipping [0], and most speakers would blow out if the amp didn't clip (especially for the larger guns). And, assuming none of that happened then, just as you would have on a gun deck, your listeners' ears would be damaged. So the sound of gunfire in media is quieted.

Most people simply aren't around guns in the first place, let alone firing guns (eg, going to a gun range with friends/family/etc even if you don't own a gun), to understand just how much media misrepresents it.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio)


Comedies often are more accurate because dumb things are allowed to happen and real life doesn’t follow the rule-of-cool. See also, Monty Python Holy Grail, and Veep.


The first season of True Detective is amazing TV for many reasons, but the scene I'll never forget involves a tense moment when suddenly the first gunshot goes off inside a small cottage and all hell breaks loose.

Instead of a silly overacted action sequence where the hero darts around killing everyone with miraculous hip-fired headshots, instead you hear a sudden jarring crack-FWOOMP followed by an intensely loud tinnitus ringing. It takes half the scene for the ringing to slowly clear while the hero somewhat realistically tries to escape without harming anyone or blowing his cover, while also staying out of the line of fire.

It was so against the norm for action sequences that it nearly broke the immersion for me until it settled in how well put together that scene was.


Indeed.

Even firing a large calibre rifle with hearing protection is something you need to get use to. Not only the noise, but the pressure wave and recoil feels like someone just punched you.


I've noticed that even with good hearing protection (foamies + earmuffs), being next to loud guns (like .50BMG outdoors or most rifle calibers indoors) disorients me and causes me to feel a little strange for hours afterwards. I think that anyone who spends a lot of time near such explosions risks brain injury.

I'm pretty sure the effect comes from the sound and not something like toxic gasses because I never get the feeling shooting smaller calibers, nor do I get it when shooting with a silencer. It's too bad silencers are so restricted in the US. I think a lot of shooters would be in better health if they were more common.


In the army I had the opportunity to fire the Carl Gustaf 84mm recoilless rifle, which is normally a two person job (one to hold, aim and fire, the other to load and check the backblast area).

We're instructed to exhale before firing because the concussion of the round leaving the front while its propellent leaves the back of the tube creates a brief vacuum. If you don't exhale, the air is forced out of your lungs so violently you feel like you got punched in the chest.

The noise is undoubtedly part of it, but the atmospheric effect is not insignificant, I think.


>The noise is undoubtedly part of it, but the atmospheric effect is not insignificant, I think.

Yeah that's exactly why indoor ranges kind of suck for any serious rifle caliber.


Dude was using a shotgun in an indoor range next to me and the air pressure was so bad I had to move. Pressure against my whole body.


Local range only allows shotguns for 1 w/y (to sight in hunting sabots). That's why. Those things are big.

But even a .270 /30-06 puts out a lot more noise than you think it will. You jump right out of your skin the first shot.


Seems rude.

Is it typical to use a shotgun in an indoor range? I thought shotguns were for killing clay pigeons.


There are indoor clay pigeon ranges. Though I'm guessing it was a shotgun shooting a slug which acts like any other gun (as opposed to shot which spreads and so wouldn't be useful at most ranges since you would hit your neighbor's target as well)


First off, most indoor ranges don't allow shotgun target loads and slugs are $$$ so people don't typically shoot them indoors.

It's not explicitly rude but depending on the exact circumstances it's kind of pushing it to shoot 12ga and full power rifle rounds at indoor recreational ranges. Like don't do it on Saturday morning when it's busy and everyone is their with their wife or kids or whatever. Anything with enough concussion to be obnoxious to other shooters is sus.


UK was also busy with the Napoleonic war which caused attrition of skilled crew men and ships. 1812 was a secondary campaign.


same is true of the US rebellion in 1776

at most a minor skirmish within the larger ongoing wars with France


> Then people appeared in the fog, moving with their arms out trying to get away blindly from the threat they perceived (that was already over).

With an actual threat, it sounds like it was a genuine cannon firefight -- though surely not these days. May I ask what this was?


I shoot .308, and have noticed that the position where you were (to the side, but ahead), receives far more noise than when you're behind the barrel shooting. Like phenomenally more.




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