It's insane because of the implications: Musk was a major contributor to Trump's campaign, and a major advisor, and at the last minute he implies Trump is a pedophile?

This means Musk knowingly contributed to get a pedophile elected! He couldn't have learned this at the last minute, he obviously held this ace in his sleeve.

This already should "impeach" Musk (informally) in the eyes of his supporters: this is a guy who would help get a pedophile elected president if it would suit his business vision.

> He couldn't have learned this at the last minute, he obviously held this ace in his sleeve.

Why? He could easily have learned this after the election.

Not after the election, since he supported Trump (barring some disagreements) until a few weeks ago. They parted with a hug, just before this blowup.

So are we supposed to believe Musk just found out about the Epstein link, hidden in unreleased documents, in the last few days? It's extremely farfetched.

I think Musk has pluses and minuses. I think he does have some mental issues volatile and lash out and make poor decisions even if I do agree with some things and disagree with others. To be honest, he is someone that staked his reputation on completely verifiably and provably lying about the legitimacy of his ranking in a video game and at a time with all eyes on him besmirched a large streamer he previously has thought of partnering with on X as best by “bad at video games.” It’s just terrible judgment. I’m surprised the “normie” didn’t focus on kind of pathetic it looked to lie about videos games and instead they made wild accusations comparing him to the bad people from 30s.

This isn't the first time Musk has baselessly accused someone of pedophilia on social media.

He did it randomly to some guy he didn't like in Thailand who saved some kids trapped in a cave. He's probably done it other times.

It's just an Elon Musk thing. Go totally unhinged on social media and defame people without evidence. He does it all the time.

The only guy more famous than Musk for saying absolute nonsense on social media, is Trump.

It is all fake, lame, and nonsense.

What's shocking is that the people running our country are behaving like absolute children. I feel like they wouldn't be able to hold down a job at my company because they're so unhinged, they would have been fired long ago, and yet here they are, billionaires, deciding the fate of 350M people.

Yeah, I remember that other accusation.

To be clear, I'm not debating the veracity of the accusation, I'm asking what it says about Musk that he claims to have knowingly helped elect president someone he knew to be a pedophile.

I mean, I would assume that anyone who's still a Musk supporter has no morals to speak of anyway, so I'm not sure why they would be concerned by this implication.

Wow, that is some amazing threading of the mental needle to focus blame on Musk. Doesn't this indictment apply to every single person who voted for Trump in 2024? Those pictures of Epstein, Trump, and Maxwell having themselves some grand old times have been popularly circulating for like a decade at this point.

If the indictment doesn't apply, then why can't Musk play the same card of "I didn't know/believe/accept" while he was supporting, but only recently has he "now come to know" ?

Why wouldn't I heap blame on Musk (as well as on Trump, mind you)? The guy's deranged and repulsive.

I don't think your objections are fair. Let's go over them:

The average Trump voter doesn't know much about Epstein, and certainly doesn't believe Trump was involved in anything with that scandal. Any evidence that may turn up would be considered "fake news" to them. Whatever you may think of Trump voters, and whatever things they really are to blame for, knowingly voting for someone they believe to be a pedophile isn't one of their sins.

Musk just implied Trump is a pedophile (or is suppressing certain documents because of his links to a pedophile). Musk also claims without him Trump wouldn't have been elected. These are Musk's claims, so he has thrown away any possible defenses of "but I didn't know/believe this" and "but I'm irrelevant in the grand scheme of things".

You also claim Musk could defend himself with "but I didn't know at the time". This is very, very weak. When exactly do you suppose he learned this? In the few days that have elapsed since this very public falling out, maybe even a few days before? Oh, please. You know you don't believe this, these two were heaping praise on each other and calling themselves friends for most of their collaboration since Trump's second term, and only now Musk found out about Epstein? What, an aide rushed this info to him just in time for their current breakup? Absurd.

Any way you slice it, Musk had this accusation up his sleeve the whole time, he just chose to deploy it now.

So again I must ask, what does this say -- in his fans' eyes -- about Musk as a person?

PS: You seem to believe I'm somehow defending Trump here. If that's your worry, let me be clear that I think Trump is a disgrace. I don't know whether he's a pedophile though, unlike Musk I don't claim to have seen any secret documents. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if both Trump and Musk are pedophiles, these aren't exactly examples of decent human beings.

PPS: it has also just occurred to me you could be wondering why I'm focusing on the outrageous things Musk has said, but not on the contradictory, absurd or just plain dumb things Trump is saying about Musk? Well, because Trump has an expiration date. I suppose he can do lots of immediate damage to Musk, but he must do so now. Musk, as the world's richest person, has a much longer shelf life and more time to do damage to the US and the rest of the world, and bizarrely, has a large cult following. So I wonder what his followers think.

IME Trump supporters will justify anything he does or may plausibly have done. They're too invested in him or have bought into the idea that the other must be so much worse.

Elon stans seem to have a similar mindset.

Getting folks to think critically about Elon's actions would require an Epstein video of Trump engaging in SA with a clearly underage child. Likely only if coming out of police evidence lockers sealed before AI video existed. And it would have to be reported widely and maybe even released publicly without cuts (only blurring).

This is also a left smear. Many conservatives have expressed dissatisfaction with this bill that is the focus of all this. It’s not true what you are saying. It’s not true that those that voted for him agree and justify everything. Regardless of what you may think of Covid response, many conservatives expressed disagreement with him on that as well.

It is not as if supporters will deny all but a clear video tape of such an incident. There is no evidence this is true and there is plenty of reason to think it does not exist. The fact that Trump turned on Epstein while he was alive and Epstein’s attorney tried to find ways to smear Trump because of his involvement with the prosecution stands at odds with Musk’s claim that many here are granting prima facie.

Trump has a reputation for walking in on women and teens in the dressing areas at his pageants. At least one of Epstein's GFs said Trump assaulted her. Epstein said he was Trump's closest friend.

It's very possible the Epstein files do have (or used to have) damning evidence. Though IME folks who call themselves MAGA are unlikely to take any evidence seriously.

Trump himself has said he believes he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and get away with it.

You're talking about Stacey Williams allegation a couple weeks before the election and right after those regarding Doug Emhoff? It's not as simple as piling on a list of allegations. If it is so possible why did Epstein not use it against Trump especially when Trump was trying to have adverse action inflicted on Epstein? As far as the 5th Avenue thing, this is another one of these things that happens on the left where they take all of his jokes so literally and just run with it. I saw another normie take from that Lawrence O'Donnell in which he was just beside himself up in arms over Trump's tweet about Biden being a robot was absolute proof that Trump believed in Biden robots and that he was mentally incapacitated. One can have criticism without it devolving into breathless derangement.

"I only just realized!" is obviously disingenuous, but it suffices for the routine plausible deniability.

The real distinction is whether you believe that someone who has done bad deeds can be supported for other reasons, or whether they need to be repudiated in their entirety. For example even if you know Trump is a child rapist (and you condemn child rape), but you think as President he's going to do good for the country, you can still support him for President while being intellectually consistent [0].

This is separate from the issue of whether the person who has done wrong should face justice (eg continuing, you can think that Trump should go to jail but modulo that not happening, that he will do good for the country [0]). And separate from the issue of whether someone in a position to facilitate justice happening has an overriding duty to do so (I don't think Musk is in this position either though. Trump's one actual skill is escaping consequences).

> This means Musk knowingly contributed to get a pedophile elected! He couldn't have learned this at the last minute, he obviously held this ace in his sleeve...

> This already should "impeach" Musk (informally) in the eyes of his supporters: this is a guy who would help get a pedophile elected president if it would suit his business vision.

The second does not immediately follow from the first. Modulo the larger distinction I made above, it may just be the case that every second powerful figure is some kind of child rapist or similarly morally bankrupt, and this has been normalized, so even if you have morals to be applied you just have to hold your nose to get anything done. I have no idea, but I do know Epstein was connected to a lot of people.

You're also imparting a narrower business vision rather than political or moral where such compromises would be see as more justified. So no, these events might indict Musk in your mind further, but I don't think this is a universal conclusion.

> Trump has an expiration date. I suppose he can do lots of immediate damage to Musk, but he must do so now. Musk, as the world's richest person, has a much longer shelf life and more time to do damage to the US and the rest of the world, and bizarrely, has a large cult following.

I've got the complete opposite take on this. Trump has his hands on the actual levers of power, power which continues to acrete the more he destroys our institutions. Whereas Musk seems close to his limit with buying Xitter and blackmailing politicians (about funding opponents). It feels like Musk is just an avatar of the terrible dynamics of wealth concentration, which are present regardless of him personally. While Trump is actively pushing our society off a cliff in a way we will not be able to come back from. Just a feeling per my own heuristics, I'll have to ponder this more.

[0] just to be very explicit this is certainly not my own view about Trump!

Everyone knows what? There have been no shortage of journalists trying to destroy him, where is the evidence. He was quite involved in assisting prosecutors against Epstein, as a civilian. As others have pointed, Musk does have a penchant for making this exact allegation, unfounded, against people he disagrees with, even over the most bizarre of things. If we all just say we know allegations against people we disagree will true, without basis in fact, then we are no better than parliamentary monarchy for which we fought a revolution against, let alone kangaroo courts around the world.