> While not perfect, Saudi has very clearly moved "Westernly" on many ideas, most notably social
Citation very much needed. It's still a country where you can be executed for being gay, protestors against government projects get murdered in the streets, and anyone vaguely critical against the government (that includes being critical for things which have since been allowed, like women driving) being imprisoned for long periods of time. Oh, and did they not execute a dissident in a consulate? Did they not bait various government detractors living abroad to return to Saudi under threat of harm to their families?
It's still a reactionary theocracy. It has liberalised, socially, in the years since MBS has had de facto control, there is no denying that; but they're nowhere near "westernly".
> At what point does the narrative about their investments on the larger stage become less pejorative?
When their sportswashing and investmentwashing ends up entirely working. It will probably take years, Khashoggi's murder was still only 7 years ago. It will also depend a lot on how their World Cup works, a lot of the world will be watching that one closely and it will have big ramifications.
Sure, 2 inches per year, 2 steps ahead 1 step back in a good year. In 2000 years they may approach current levels of personal or religious freedom that average western country has. Till then, its absolutely horrible place if you are in any sort of minority group, or woman, or want that pesky freedom for you or your children.
The USA isn't the only country in the "western world", please stop equating the two.
Even for Britain, France, Germany, the countries with the biggest far right/reactionary political groups, where there are legitimate chances for them to end up in power, none of them are religious. Or even that socially reactionary for that matter.
Never mind third in line, the dude who is currently President just put out a memorandum declaring "anti-Christianity" to be on the same level as "support for the overthrow of the United States Government."
I really wouldn't go this far, there is _way_ too much religion in US politics for proper separation of church and state. When elected politicians regularly quote religious documents in their reasoning for making decisions, agreeing and disagreeing with others, etc. you can't claim a theocracy isn't on the cards.
No, it has not. But you cannot deny that religion being a visible, daily, part of politics, and being very often quoted as justification for political, and even worse, judicial decisions, is closer to a theocracy than it is to separation of church and state.
> There is the COVID sect. They even masked themselves outdoors in public - like the women in Iran back in the day. Without any evidence - and they did it even against evidence. It was a very religious thing
Bloody hell are we still at this nonsense today?
Public health authorities, across multiple continents, said to mask up. Did it limit spread? Yes, it did, and studies proved so. What the hell is your problem there? May I remind you the initial heavy weeks with makeshift morgues in ice rinks and refrigerated trucks, and military hospitals being deployed? Lockdowns and masking and vaccine mandates were reasonable, and reasonably effective, remedies for how horrific things could get (and did get, at the start, in multiple countries).
> There is the climate sect. There are many young followers with strong believes - but nobody has ever read any book on atmosphere science. And nobody has read any recent paper on the subject. Once you do, you'll find it very surprising how little substance is behind their dogmas.
Aha, so trusting the scientific consensus is "a sect". Do enlighten us, how is climate change not real? Or is it real, but God given? Or what is your deal?
> Another group now shouts for war - and if you listen to them they're about as intelligent as the worst kind of crusaders back in the day.
What war? Putting Russia back in its place? Si vis pacem, para bellum. The only thing a bully would understand is strength.
Please don't engage in flamewar about the relative merits of nations or regions (or COVID masks in 2025) on HN. It's not what HN is for and it destroys what it is for. This article is about the acquisition of a computer games company. The discussion ended up in a completely irrelevant and toxic place. Please remind yourself of the guidelines and make an effort to heed them in future.
You can't comment like this on Hacker News, no matter what you're replying to.
Phrases like "You've bought into multiple cults" and "I think you're pretty lost. Study some history. Seek help!" are never acceptable on HN, no matter the context.
And, really, are we still arguing about masks in 2025? Nobody is changing their mind about it now. Please just let it go.
Discussion like this is not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
Calling cargo cultists to get back to data and science is absolutely something for Hackers.. This is the only thing that might help them. - and they need help - If nobody can find keywords about those subjects to get started researching, they'll end up like the women in Iran. In Iran it was more difficult to argue against some vague will of god. But the modern western cargo cults go openly against hard data. So it's a lot easier - at least for people with a bit of skill in math in physics.
Citation very much needed. It's still a country where you can be executed for being gay, protestors against government projects get murdered in the streets, and anyone vaguely critical against the government (that includes being critical for things which have since been allowed, like women driving) being imprisoned for long periods of time. Oh, and did they not execute a dissident in a consulate? Did they not bait various government detractors living abroad to return to Saudi under threat of harm to their families?
It's still a reactionary theocracy. It has liberalised, socially, in the years since MBS has had de facto control, there is no denying that; but they're nowhere near "westernly".
> At what point does the narrative about their investments on the larger stage become less pejorative?
When their sportswashing and investmentwashing ends up entirely working. It will probably take years, Khashoggi's murder was still only 7 years ago. It will also depend a lot on how their World Cup works, a lot of the world will be watching that one closely and it will have big ramifications.