This is always said as if the buggy whip maker successfully transitioned to some new job. Please show me 10 actual examples of individuals in 1880 that successfully adapted to new jobs after the industrial revolution destroyed their old one, and what their life looked like before and after.
'Sure the 1880 start of the industrial revolution sucked, all the way through the end of WW2, but then we figured out jobs and middle class for a short time, so it doesn't matter you personally are being put at the 1880 starting point, because the 1950s had jobs'. Huh?
I don't have a dog in this disagreement, but putting the bar at "dig up the personal details of 10 different individual people and the changing dynamics of their lives over decades _starting from 1880_" is a pretty insane ask I'd imagine. How many resources for reliable and accurate longitudinal case studies from the 19th century are there really? I suppose we could read a couple dozen books written around then but that's just making a satisfactory reply so prohibitively time intensive as to be impossible.
Indeed, and when 10 were pulled up by zozbot234, they say that doesn't count. This sort of discussion is not really useful in my eyes, shifting goalposts around and not saying what one means.
I agree, but I do wonder if because those times were generally less specialized, urbanized, etc.. it would have been more possible to simply pivot to another non-specialized "job", because you were either uneducated and poor and needed to be able to do everything, or born rich and able to do the one special thing your whole life. Like when the buggy whip maker couldn't sell whips anymore, they just did 4 of the other jobs they had to do anyway.
The classic old person advice is to just walk in somewhere, give the owner a stern handshake, and you got a job, and if that job could pay your mortgage, then problem solved. Whereas now, to become a buggy whip maker (or whatever), we've developed yhe expectation that you go to school for 4 years and start out at the bottom of the income ladder. If the income we need to pay for the basics (which admittedly are different) requires a lifetime of experience, then it's impossible to pivot
1. Samuel Slater: Textile mill worker → Factory founder
Before: Born to a modest family in England, Slater worked as an apprentice in a textile mill, learning the mechanics of spinning frames.
After: In 1790 he emigrated to the United States, where he introduced British‑style water‑powered textile machinery, earning the nickname "Father of the American Industrial Revolution." He built the first successful cotton‑spinning mill in Rhode Island and became a wealthy industrialist.
2. Ellen Swallow Richards: Teacher → Pioneering chemist and sanitary engineer
Before: Taught school in Massachusetts while supporting her family after her father's death.
After: Enrolled at MIT (the first woman admitted), earned a chemistry degree, and applied scientific methods to public health, founding the first school of home economics and influencing water‑quality standards.
3. Frederick Winslow Taylor: Machinist → Scientific management consultant
Before: Trained as a mechanical engineer and worked on the shop floor of a steel plant, witnessing chaotic production practices.
After: Developed Taylorism, a systematic approach to labor efficiency, consulting for major firms and publishing The Principles of Scientific Management (1911), reshaping industrial labor organization.
4. John D. Rockefeller: Small‑scale merchant → Oil magnate
Before: Ran a modest produce‑selling business in Cleveland, Ohio, struggling after the Panic of 1873 reduced local demand.
After: Invested in the nascent petroleum industry, founded Standard Oil in 1870, and built a monopoly that made him the wealthiest person of his era.
5. Clara Barton: Teacher & clerk → Humanitarian nurse
Before: Worked as a schoolteacher and later as a clerk for the U.S. Patent Office, earning a modest living.
After: Volunteered as a nurse during the Civil War, later founding the American Red Cross in 1881, turning her wartime experience into a lifelong career in disaster relief.
6. Andrew Carnegie: Factory apprentice → Steel tycoon
Before: Began as a bobbin boy in a cotton factory in Scotland, later emigrating to the U.S. and working as a telegraph messenger.
After: Invested in railroads and iron, eventually creating Carnegie Steel Company (1901), becoming a leading philanthropist after retiring.
7. Lillian M. N. Stevens: Seamstress → Temperance leader
Before: Earned a living sewing garments in a New England workshop, a trade threatened by mechanized clothing factories.
After: Joined the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, rising to national president (1898‑1914) and influencing social reform legislation.
8. George Pullman: Cabinet‑maker → Railroad car innovator
Before: Trained as a carpenter, making furniture for a small New England firm that struggled as railroads expanded.
After: Designed and manufactured luxury sleeping cars, founding the Pullman Company (1867) and creating a model industrial town for his workers.
9. Mary Elizabeth Garrett: Schoolteacher → Medical education reformer
Before: Taught at a private academy in Baltimore, earning a modest salary.
After: Used her inheritance to fund the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine (1893), insisting on admission of women and establishing the first women’s medical school in the U.S.
10. Henry Ford: Farmhand → Automobile pioneer
Before: Worked on his family farm in Michigan and later as an apprentice machinist, facing limited prospects as agriculture mechanized.
After: Built the Ford Motor Company (1903) and introduced the moving‑assembly line (1913), making automobiles affordable for the masses.
Come on. These are edge cases. We are talking Joe average that went from having their own business, to working an average job. You know, the mass scaled transfer that will be what happens for most of society when people say 'they will find new jobs'. Not the small amount outliers.
The guys that ended up spending their lives living in boarding houses with other men, never starting a family.
The guys that ended up living in tramp camps traveling the country looking for work.
The families that ended up as migrant workers. The people that broke and lived in flop houses or those long term hotels in downtowns.
That is the real picture no one shows. What does 'find new work' after the industrial revolution look like for the average person, and the answer isn't 'become Henry f'ing Ford' now is it post WW2 style middle class employment.
OK, here's 10 concise, plausible examples of how average individuals in the late 19th century might have adapted to new jobs after economic change (e.g., industrialization, mechanization, decline of artisan trades, agrarian shifts). In order to focus specifically on the "average", we now choose to simply build illustrative, composite scenarios based on common historical patterns (as opposed to specifically documented people) so you can see typical before-and-after lives.
1. Blacksmith → Railroad Carriage Foreman
Before: Local village blacksmith, shoeing horses, forging tools; works long hours in a small shop; income modest but steady; reputation tied to local farmers.
After: Takes a job at a nearby railway workshop as a metalworker assembling and repairing iron carriages; works in shifts under foremen; more regular wages and slightly higher pay; moves to a rail town, his kids gain access to a school; he loses some independence in his new setting but has marked gains in job security and cash pay.
Before: Home-based handloom weaver producing cloth on commission; schedule flexible but income fluctuates with orders; household-centered labor.
After: Employed in a textile mill running power looms; fixed hours, supervised by overseers; steady wage, production quotas; exposure to somewhat harsher factory conditions, but more reliable monthly income and potential for overtime pay.
3. Sailmaker/Canvas Artisan → Industrial Tent or Sail Factory Worker
Before: Small workshop making ship sails and canvas goods for local ships; skills highly specialized and tied to maritime trade.
After: Joins a larger factory producing canvas goods and tents for military contracts or industrial customers; moves from bespoke work to standardized production; learns new machine operations; steadier demand, less artisanal pride but higher throughput.
Before: Owner-operator of a few acres, subsistence mixed with small-market sales; vulnerable to crop failures and market price swings.
After: Sells or loses land, takes wage labor on larger farms or in orchards; seasonal work, long hours during harvests; cash wages replaced self-provisioning, children sometimes work; potential to move seasonally to find work.
5. Canal Boatman → Dockyard or Stevedore Worker
Before: Independent canal boat operator transporting goods along waterways; income from tolls and freight; lifestyle itinerant but autonomous.
After: With canal traffic declining due to railways, he becomes a dock laborer unloading goods at a port; work is bunched into long, physical shifts; income less variable but less autonomy; often joins laborer networks or unions.
6. Carpenter (Craft) → Construction Gang Member on Urban Projects
Before: Skilled carpenter building houses and furniture for local clients; runs small crew, has flexible custom work.
After: Migrates to a city for large-scale building projects (tenements, bridges); works as part of an organized gang, specializing in one repetitive task (e.g., formwork); wages steadier including opportunities for overtime, though with less creative control.
Before: Family tannery producing saddles and boots for local markets; knowledge-intensive, smelly but respected craft.
After: Enters a leather goods factory operating stitching or cutting machines for mass-produced footwear; learns machine maintenance; working environment more regulated, discipline stricter, pay more regular.
8. Rural Cooper (Barrelmaker) → Brewery or Canning Works Employee
Before: Independent cooper making barrels for local brewers and farms; demand falls as metal containers and standard packaging rose.
After: Hired by an urban brewery or canned-goods plant to maintain wooden vats or operate filling machinery; moves closer to urban amenities; job is less entrepreneurial but offers steady pay and sometimes benefits.
9. Watchmaker/Clock Repairer → Precision Machine Operator or Assembler in Electrical or Watch Factories
Before: Skilled artisan repairing and crafting clocks, serving local clientele; income from repairs and small commissions.
After: Joins an urban precision workshop or early watch factory assembling parts or operating lathes; narrower tasks but higher volume and a connection to emerging industrial technologies; more predictable pay and potential for apprenticeships for children.
10. Fisherman (Small-Boat) → Cannery Worker in Coastal Town
Before: Independent small-boat fisherman selling catch to local markets; income seasonal and weather-dependent; family-based operation.
After: Cannery expansion offers steady work in fish-packing plants, processing, salting, or canning; shift work with set hours and piece-rate opportunities; his income is quite a bit steadier, though the job is somewhat repetitive and sometimes hazardous.
Here's a sketch of the bigger picture we can see from these scenarios:
Greater wage stability: Moving from piecework, self-employment, or seasonal income into factory, railway, or dock wages usually meant steadier cash pay and more predictable household budgeting.
Larger scale means less autonomy: Many tradesmen lost control over hours, pace, and methods, trading independent decision-making for supervised, repetitive tasks.
Increased urbanization and mobility: Job shifts often prompted moves to towns or industrial centers, changing family networks and access to services (schools, markets, hospitals).
Routine and discipline: Factory and industrial work imposed fixed schedules, time discipline, and stricter workplace rules compared with artisan or farm life.
Skill reorientation: Some workers adapted existing skills to machines and assembly roles, while others lost craftsman status as specialized knowledge gave way to standardized production.
Household changes: Women and children were drawn into wage labor more frequently; domestic production declined as cash purchases rose.
Health and safety trade-offs: Improved incomes sometimes came with worse working conditions, crowding, and new occupational hazards.
Social mobility mixed: For some, steady wages enabled upward moves (education for children, home purchase); for others, loss of independence and precarious labor markets limited long-term mobility.
Community and identity shifts: Occupational identities tied to craft or land weakened; new worker solidarities and urban social institutions (mutual aid, unions, churches) grew in importance.
Consumption patterns: Predictable wages led to more regular purchase of manufactured goods, changing diets, clothing, and household items.
Don't move the goalposts, you said find 10 and they did. Keep in mind it's much harder to find evidence for average people than for "successful" people, by definition.
I didn't move the goalpost. The point was to become better informed what 'find a new job' looked like at the start of the industrial revolution, not to own me. When people say 'in the industrial revolution, people found new work' they aren't referring to Henry Ford and you know that. You know their answer wasn't relevant to the discussion.
What did losing your stables/small scale manufacturing/family farm/etc and adjusting to post industrial revolution 'finding a new job' look like? Saying 'Henry Ford existed' doesn't add anything to understanding that.
> You know their answer wasn't relevant to the discussion.
You're the one who asked the question...
Sorry but if you're going to mean something other than what you say, then you should specify that in what you say rather than have people guessing or answering questions you yourself asked then saying, but no that's not what I mean. Well, yeah, we don't know unless you say so, and that's exactly where the goalpost moving is, you literally did it in the above comment.
Got it. When tech bros/AI proponents tell a single mom with kids who is worried about losing her middle class job to ai that 'new jobs come along' what they are saying is 'just be Henry Ford'. If you want to stick with this response great. It's on point for the whole pro-AI set.
'new jobs come' is very much pushed by the AI set when people bring up concerns. I was simply trying to define what that looks like. Apparently it's 'just become Henry Ford or a Rockefeller'. Good luck with that talking point.
No one said become Henry Ford. You keep trying to put words in people's mouths because you come into this discussion with a preconceived notion that you're correct, meanwhile multiple people are providing evidence that you're likely not. If you have any actual points to share please do so but it doesn't seem that you do rather than saying the same two points over and over and moving those talking points once someone tests it. I don't know about you but I don't find that very enlightening discussion.
Do you think those people just starved to death? They had to find other jobs and they did. Now I'm sure I could find you 10 such examples if I trawl through historical records for a few hours but I'm not going to waste my time like that on New Year's Eve.
Why are you constructing a strawman in your second paragraph? No one said or even implied that, you just made up your own quote you're attacking for something reason?
People imply that the jobs shakeup will 'work itself out', but tend to imply that working out looks like post WW2, when in reality we are at 1880 level change that took decades to 'work itself out' and working itself out included in 2 world wars during that time.
No one is waiting 70 years to work itself out, you're operating on a false premise that I don't even know where it comes from, people were not starving jobless for 70 years straight. Like I said, people found other jobs, within a decade span at most of their occupation being automated.
People definitely were starving and looking for work at the start of the industrial revolution. Your response is why what I said isn't a strawman. Your response of 'trust me bro, it worked out' very much is. The economy/job/living situation in 1880-1940, the 'working through it' phase of the industrial revolution, was very shitty and nothing like post WW2.
Tramps/homeless/tramp camps was a part of life.
Huge groups of men lived in 'boarding houses' their entire lives. Most people today don't even know what boarding houses were.
There were huge populations that traveled as migrant field workers.
The reality looked much different than post WW2 employment.
Sure you said people found other jobs. But really, lots of people didn't. Or didn't find jobs that allowed them to live outside boarding houses and have families. There is a whole big picture waved away with 'found jobs' that implies post WW2 jobs/lifestyles, when in fact that is not what happened post industrial revolution, and did not happen until much later, and was not guaranteed to happen ever.
Ratelimited so editing:
People handweaving away legitimate fears with 'people found new work' are implying it is on the level/quality of life. My 'strawman' is pointing out their 'found new work' was shittier work and a shittier life and that the handwaving/minimizing peoples fears with such a hollow statement is bullshit and should be called out as such. 'found new work' is nothing more than 'people didn't all die'.
> There is a whole big picture waved away with 'found jobs' that implies post WW2 jobs/lifestyles
No, you are the only one implying this, no one said anything about this which is why I said it is a strawman. I said nothing about the quality of work found, only that new work was found. That may or may not be the case for today's situation, no one can know and I am not in the business of prognosticating so.
'Sure the 1880 start of the industrial revolution sucked, all the way through the end of WW2, but then we figured out jobs and middle class for a short time, so it doesn't matter you personally are being put at the 1880 starting point, because the 1950s had jobs'. Huh?